1 00:00:03,710 --> 00:00:02,060 Joe and Martin will sure host and we 2 00:00:06,260 --> 00:00:03,720 have a fun show for you this evening we 3 00:00:08,629 --> 00:00:06,270 have our guest his Nick Redfern repeat 4 00:00:11,450 --> 00:00:08,639 guest always really loved having him on 5 00:00:13,850 --> 00:00:11,460 the show he's got a new book I think 6 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:13,860 he's written 50 books so far and all 7 00:00:19,279 --> 00:00:17,369 kinds of interesting topics and this one 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:19,289 is particularly interesting we're gonna 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:22,650 be talking about top-secret abduction 10 00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:25,170 files what the government may or may not 11 00:00:30,439 --> 00:00:27,750 know he always dives deep into these 12 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:30,449 subjects and should be really fun to 13 00:00:36,110 --> 00:00:32,730 talk to him before that I have Alejandro 14 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:36,120 with a special guest visiting him he's 15 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:38,190 going to be on the show in just a second 16 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:42,590 and we are live on kgr a radio and I 17 00:00:46,310 --> 00:00:44,730 want to say hi everyone over there and 18 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:46,320 getting some email from people over 19 00:00:51,340 --> 00:00:48,260 there so that's that's always nice and 20 00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:51,350 I'm getting a lot of email from 21 00:00:55,250 --> 00:00:53,280 Australia they're one of the big 22 00:00:57,740 --> 00:00:55,260 listeners of the show and and I want to 23 00:01:00,200 --> 00:00:57,750 just say a little shout out to people 24 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:00,210 over there Stacy I think is one person's 25 00:01:06,679 --> 00:01:03,809 name we also have Chris from Tasmania 26 00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:06,689 who has written another blog and this 27 00:01:11,149 --> 00:01:09,510 one is the Vallon tech UFO incident in 28 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:11,159 Australia he wrote about that so check 29 00:01:17,390 --> 00:01:14,130 out podcast UFO calm and you'll see the 30 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:17,400 blog is right there and I want to thank 31 00:01:21,109 --> 00:01:19,170 everyone that helps out with the show we 32 00:01:24,050 --> 00:01:21,119 absolutely could not do it without you 33 00:01:27,649 --> 00:01:24,060 it's about a break-even now and I really 34 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:27,659 appreciate people helping out and all 35 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:29,970 right we're ready to get going alejandro 36 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:31,170 how are you 37 00:01:39,859 --> 00:01:36,840 you're kind of an awkward angle I don't 38 00:01:41,359 --> 00:01:39,869 see now I'm the guy with the I have the 39 00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:41,369 Stars behind me I don't know if you can 40 00:01:46,609 --> 00:01:44,369 see that I have a new background not as 41 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:46,619 fancy as yours but my stars have fold 42 00:01:53,149 --> 00:01:50,460 marks in them so copycat yeah yeah I 43 00:01:56,330 --> 00:01:53,159 can't see him I can't see you at all but 44 00:01:59,300 --> 00:01:56,340 I assume you're there I can hear you 45 00:02:01,999 --> 00:01:59,310 and unless it's somebody that is doing a 46 00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:02,009 very good impression of you which I 47 00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:03,630 think would be difficult because you 48 00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:06,960 have a unique voice wow I think that's a 49 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:09,030 boy you should be able to see me it must 50 00:02:13,430 --> 00:02:11,970 be your your Skype or something because 51 00:02:13,699 --> 00:02:13,440 you're on your iPad or something like 52 00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:13,709 that 53 00:02:21,949 --> 00:02:16,980 anyway yeah I'm you have a sidekick does 54 00:02:26,209 --> 00:02:21,959 a sidekick wanna wave hi to us it's Marc 55 00:02:30,860 --> 00:02:26,219 Dantonio hey how are you mark good to 56 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:30,870 see you and hear you I wish I could see 57 00:02:34,849 --> 00:02:33,090 you but you know just claim it on 58 00:02:35,869 --> 00:02:34,859 Alejandro right yeah what to do that's 59 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:35,879 where we're always supposed to do 60 00:02:39,559 --> 00:02:37,889 whatever happens yeah well he always 61 00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:39,569 blames things on me so that's sort of 62 00:02:43,670 --> 00:02:40,950 like paying it forward I guess Yeah 63 00:02:47,179 --> 00:02:43,680 right right so you're visiting Arizona 64 00:02:51,289 --> 00:02:47,189 and actually aren't you both going to 65 00:02:54,530 --> 00:02:51,299 the event coming up in Baltimore I am 66 00:02:56,659 --> 00:02:54,540 NOT going but I believe he is oh that 67 00:02:59,270 --> 00:02:56,669 the alien con I believe down in 68 00:03:01,250 --> 00:02:59,280 Baltimore mm-hmm I'll be there yeah 69 00:03:02,839 --> 00:03:01,260 all right well are you there and I'll be 70 00:03:04,729 --> 00:03:02,849 doing three different talks and 71 00:03:06,949 --> 00:03:04,739 participating in a panel so they're 72 00:03:10,789 --> 00:03:06,959 gonna keep me busy and we're gonna have 73 00:03:12,949 --> 00:03:10,799 a UFO Congress booth there where we're 74 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:12,959 gonna be selling super cool stuff all 75 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:13,290 right 76 00:03:22,909 --> 00:03:21,690 so what oh no the weekend I've neck oh 77 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:22,919 yeah yeah yeah 78 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:26,310 following week Oh excellent okay so what 79 00:03:33,170 --> 00:03:30,930 is going on okay so I come before you 80 00:03:34,909 --> 00:03:33,180 start just before we start here you 81 00:03:37,069 --> 00:03:34,919 start to tell me that you are going to 82 00:03:38,949 --> 00:03:37,079 make something after the show do I don't 83 00:03:42,589 --> 00:03:38,959 want you to forget to talk about that 84 00:03:44,780 --> 00:03:42,599 just remember that and because I once we 85 00:03:46,849 --> 00:03:44,790 start talking UFOs I get excited about 86 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:46,859 UFOs you're gonna have to remind me your 87 00:03:52,780 --> 00:03:49,169 little set your gun I'll try yeah all 88 00:03:54,979 --> 00:03:52,790 right ready now yeah so what's going on 89 00:03:57,050 --> 00:03:54,989 okay I want to get to a couple of things 90 00:03:59,270 --> 00:03:57,060 so I'll touch it on this one real 91 00:04:00,589 --> 00:03:59,280 quickly just cuz it's a case that you 92 00:04:03,710 --> 00:04:00,599 brought this up on on my podcast 93 00:04:05,569 --> 00:04:03,720 actually and it's a interesting case I 94 00:04:07,610 --> 00:04:05,579 had not heard of but it's in the 95 00:04:12,099 --> 00:04:07,620 Baltimore Sun it's a case that happened 96 00:04:14,839 --> 00:04:12,109 60 years ago in that area Loch Raven 97 00:04:17,930 --> 00:04:14,849 reservoir where these two guys were 98 00:04:21,709 --> 00:04:17,940 driving in the area in the 50s and they 99 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:21,719 came across a large saucer in the sky it 100 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:24,690 actually made their car stop they got 101 00:04:29,110 --> 00:04:25,310 out 102 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:29,120 had beamed alight on them and before 103 00:04:34,629 --> 00:04:32,450 leaving and then their car worked what's 104 00:04:36,940 --> 00:04:34,639 great about this case also that it was a 105 00:04:39,129 --> 00:04:36,950 blue book case so it was something that 106 00:04:41,950 --> 00:04:39,139 was investigated by the air force and 107 00:04:44,110 --> 00:04:41,960 now they say that this case influenced a 108 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:44,120 lot of UFO research and a lot of UFO 109 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:47,780 research in the area but I'm not aware I 110 00:04:51,940 --> 00:04:49,970 had not heard of this case before that's 111 00:04:53,530 --> 00:04:51,950 why I think it's pretty cool but I also 112 00:04:56,260 --> 00:04:53,540 think that it's cool that it's in the 113 00:04:59,020 --> 00:04:56,270 Baltimore Sun of course I'll be heading 114 00:05:01,600 --> 00:04:59,030 there pretty soon just like you talked 115 00:05:03,310 --> 00:05:01,610 about but yeah that's one to check out 116 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:03,320 that people will find out an open mind 117 00:05:09,790 --> 00:05:06,530 TV uh you know another thing to mention 118 00:05:12,969 --> 00:05:09,800 is you mentioned Valenta CH which who 119 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:12,979 who was this kid who was a pilot and 120 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:15,290 that case was something like 40 years 121 00:05:18,730 --> 00:05:17,450 ago I can't remember the exact date but 122 00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:18,740 since you mentioned it I just wanted to 123 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:20,720 talk about it because there is a story 124 00:05:27,070 --> 00:05:23,690 in the media about that one as well 125 00:05:29,950 --> 00:05:27,080 where his girlfriend from the time was 126 00:05:31,390 --> 00:05:29,960 was mentioned but just to view that Oh 127 00:05:33,580 --> 00:05:31,400 go over that one real quick it's really 128 00:05:35,350 --> 00:05:33,590 interesting this kid had just 129 00:05:38,260 --> 00:05:35,360 essentially gotten his private pilot's 130 00:05:42,430 --> 00:05:38,270 license he was gonna do his first solo 131 00:05:44,710 --> 00:05:42,440 flight over water well during this 132 00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:44,720 flight he said he was being followed by 133 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:47,600 a large cylindrical glowing object that 134 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:50,570 was flying around his plane and then he 135 00:05:54,909 --> 00:05:51,770 was never heard from again 136 00:05:57,129 --> 00:05:54,919 and he nor the plane was ever found his 137 00:05:59,830 --> 00:05:57,139 girlfriend said in this recent article 138 00:06:02,560 --> 00:05:59,840 that he was actually worried about his 139 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:02,570 first solo flight over water so she felt 140 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:05,570 he kind of prophesized what had happened 141 00:06:12,430 --> 00:06:07,250 that something unfortunately negative 142 00:06:14,379 --> 00:06:12,440 did happen Wow but go ahead I wanted to 143 00:06:16,690 --> 00:06:14,389 get into another case just because mark 144 00:06:18,820 --> 00:06:16,700 is here something else that's going on 145 00:06:21,969 --> 00:06:18,830 and I love this because it's always fun 146 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:21,979 to educate the public on great cases but 147 00:06:28,390 --> 00:06:25,960 also to warn them of material that is is 148 00:06:33,730 --> 00:06:28,400 not credible or it's not what it appears 149 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:33,740 to be so 1952 UFOs flow or flew over 150 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:36,110 Washington DC and actually there was a 151 00:06:41,110 --> 00:06:38,690 wave so there's a period of time 152 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:41,120 it's one of the best cases out there in 153 00:06:45,660 --> 00:06:43,370 fact because it had happened and they 154 00:06:48,310 --> 00:06:45,670 had flown over a National Airport 155 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:48,320 Airport National Airport there in 156 00:06:53,740 --> 00:06:51,490 Washington DC Blue Book was 157 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:53,750 investigating it and captain ruppelt 158 00:06:59,740 --> 00:06:56,570 whose book you can read on this incident 159 00:07:02,650 --> 00:06:59,750 I goes into it in detail was out there 160 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:02,660 investigating it he had to go home but 161 00:07:07,870 --> 00:07:05,270 the weekend after he went home these 162 00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:07,880 things came back and Blue Book personnel 163 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:10,760 who were there in Washington DC actually 164 00:07:16,210 --> 00:07:13,700 went to the control tower and witnessed 165 00:07:18,340 --> 00:07:16,220 all of this going down it sounds much 166 00:07:20,170 --> 00:07:18,350 like you know stories that you hear 167 00:07:23,890 --> 00:07:20,180 through history including very similar 168 00:07:25,690 --> 00:07:23,900 to 2004 in San Diego what happened to 169 00:07:27,910 --> 00:07:25,700 the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group like we 170 00:07:31,060 --> 00:07:27,920 hear about but essentially seeing these 171 00:07:33,550 --> 00:07:31,070 white lights jets are scrambled when the 172 00:07:36,190 --> 00:07:33,560 Jets get in the area these things dart 173 00:07:38,290 --> 00:07:36,200 off at very quick speeds and in this 174 00:07:41,230 --> 00:07:38,300 case it was reported that once the Jets 175 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:41,240 left they came back so a great case 176 00:07:46,030 --> 00:07:43,910 however why I'm bringing this up is that 177 00:07:48,250 --> 00:07:46,040 you will see this in the UFO news 178 00:07:51,430 --> 00:07:48,260 because what had happened recently is 179 00:07:54,670 --> 00:07:51,440 that Tom DeLonge and Lou Elizondo boast 180 00:07:58,600 --> 00:07:54,680 of to the Stars Academy went and spoke 181 00:08:01,480 --> 00:07:58,610 in Rome recently and Louise Elizondo you 182 00:08:05,470 --> 00:08:01,490 know as a formerly ran a pentagon UFO 183 00:08:07,510 --> 00:08:05,480 project and in they talked about this 184 00:08:11,860 --> 00:08:07,520 case because it's a great case but they 185 00:08:14,590 --> 00:08:11,870 did show a photo and it was this photo 186 00:08:17,470 --> 00:08:14,600 and people see this out there 187 00:08:19,150 --> 00:08:17,480 often it's crop where you just see you 188 00:08:21,550 --> 00:08:19,160 don't see these lines but you see the 189 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:21,560 capital in these lights well if you see 190 00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:23,690 the full photo here and this is a photo 191 00:08:29,290 --> 00:08:26,990 from NICAP they draw lines from the 192 00:08:32,020 --> 00:08:29,300 lights down on the street level up to 193 00:08:36,670 --> 00:08:32,030 the lights in the sky why because when 194 00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:36,680 you take a picture of something with in 195 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:38,510 the dark where where there are lights 196 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:41,090 that are overexposed like this you'll 197 00:08:47,380 --> 00:08:44,090 often see kind of this in-camera kind of 198 00:08:50,290 --> 00:08:47,390 flare type of thing and that this is not 199 00:08:51,110 --> 00:08:50,300 these aren't UFOs these are flares and I 200 00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:51,120 actually 201 00:08:59,900 --> 00:08:55,110 have a MUFON photo expert here to talk 202 00:09:02,780 --> 00:08:59,910 more about this infection phenomenon Wow 203 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:02,790 that's true you know and the thing about 204 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:05,130 lens flares is that they're symmetric 205 00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:07,529 across the center of the field so if you 206 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:09,360 have a flare or an object that's up here 207 00:09:12,710 --> 00:09:11,490 right and you have another bright object 208 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:12,720 on the ground then you think maybe 209 00:09:17,390 --> 00:09:14,850 that's the source draw a line between it 210 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:17,400 okay then if you have another one draw a 211 00:09:21,290 --> 00:09:18,810 line between that in the in its 212 00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:21,300 potential source if all the lines cross 213 00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:23,400 right in the very in one place then 214 00:09:26,269 --> 00:09:24,720 you're actually crossing at the center 215 00:09:28,579 --> 00:09:26,279 that that image frame and that's 216 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:28,589 typically what happens with flares they 217 00:09:34,850 --> 00:09:32,490 dance around symmetrically opposite the 218 00:09:36,410 --> 00:09:34,860 actual source object so that's what what 219 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:36,420 I think we see in that Washington one 220 00:09:41,030 --> 00:09:39,510 and in many many hundreds and hundreds 221 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:41,040 of others that I've seen over the years 222 00:09:44,690 --> 00:09:43,110 but you know it doesn't mean that's all 223 00:09:47,329 --> 00:09:44,700 we have you know there's certainly more 224 00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:47,339 to it but that's in that case he's 225 00:09:53,170 --> 00:09:49,980 exactly right mark while you're on this 226 00:09:55,310 --> 00:09:53,180 marker pinnacle a bit expertise here 227 00:09:59,000 --> 00:09:55,320 mark while you're talking about this 228 00:10:00,890 --> 00:09:59,010 there was a great case that the mexican 229 00:10:05,769 --> 00:10:00,900 air force got involved and it was over 230 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:05,779 oil oil what do they call them edging 231 00:10:11,690 --> 00:10:09,450 oil rigs oil rigs offshore and the same 232 00:10:14,510 --> 00:10:11,700 thing but they actually had radar they 233 00:10:16,850 --> 00:10:14,520 had radar contact they were they had 234 00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:16,860 their camera out and they were filming 235 00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:20,160 but they also had these same refractions 236 00:10:26,510 --> 00:10:22,800 or something coming up from the from the 237 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:26,520 oil derricks out there I do you know 238 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:28,170 about that particular case is that a 239 00:10:33,170 --> 00:10:31,230 similar type situation yeah I don't know 240 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:33,180 about that but see the the the thing 241 00:10:37,699 --> 00:10:35,490 here well the thing with that case is I 242 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:37,709 don't know that data I haven't seen 243 00:10:43,579 --> 00:10:40,529 radar data from that case personally but 244 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:43,589 radar data is always a good thing to 245 00:10:48,620 --> 00:10:45,570 bring in however the problem is that 246 00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:48,630 sometimes photos they get taken are 247 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:51,839 conflated with the actual event and may 248 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:53,250 have nothing to do with the event like 249 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:55,410 that photo that Hondo showed you moments 250 00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,690 ago with lights over the Capitol those 251 00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:00,480 really are just lens flares right they 252 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:02,760 really are a 99.9 percent how many seen 253 00:11:05,389 --> 00:11:04,050 almost a hundred percent sir and that's 254 00:11:07,369 --> 00:11:05,399 what they 255 00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:07,379 but for camp pitchy I haven't heard that 256 00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,529 case but more information on competi oh 257 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:12,480 there we go and of course we have a 258 00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:15,060 story on this and open mindset TV but 259 00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:16,649 you are exactly right and a similar 260 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:19,560 process was used to determine that those 261 00:11:23,780 --> 00:11:21,930 were the the oil rigs because I was a 262 00:11:26,449 --> 00:11:23,790 skeptic too I did not think those were 263 00:11:29,119 --> 00:11:26,459 the oil rigs how can these Mexican Air 264 00:11:32,299 --> 00:11:29,129 Force guys who are used to working these 265 00:11:35,389 --> 00:11:32,309 machines mistake these flames coming up 266 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:35,399 from oil rigs as UFOs I thought there's 267 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:38,610 no way but you know what it turns out 268 00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:41,970 the work of Ben McGee had proven this to 269 00:11:46,189 --> 00:11:44,399 me he actually did a process that's 270 00:11:47,869 --> 00:11:46,199 similar to what Mark described and I'll 271 00:11:49,429 --> 00:11:47,879 talk about it and then I turned out 272 00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:49,439 there was actually a Mexican UFO 273 00:11:54,139 --> 00:11:52,350 researcher who had done this at the time 274 00:11:56,269 --> 00:11:54,149 that those videos came out so he had 275 00:11:58,579 --> 00:11:56,279 done the same thing prior but 276 00:12:02,600 --> 00:11:58,589 essentially what they did was take the 277 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:02,610 path of the plane and draw that on a map 278 00:12:09,379 --> 00:12:06,300 and then draw lines from those that 279 00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:09,389 position to where these oil rigs are and 280 00:12:13,549 --> 00:12:12,089 as Ben McGee puts it and he does that 281 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:13,559 we've got a story in open minds and 282 00:12:19,549 --> 00:12:17,040 we've got Ben McGee's talk on this I was 283 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:19,559 there he did this in Las Vegas and he 284 00:12:26,509 --> 00:12:22,649 clearly demonstrates this well that way 285 00:12:29,119 --> 00:12:26,519 you can predict the lights so when you 286 00:12:32,179 --> 00:12:29,129 draw these lines you know exactly when 287 00:12:36,290 --> 00:12:32,189 the plane will see what light and they 288 00:12:40,819 --> 00:12:36,300 line up perfectly right so he was able 289 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:40,829 to undeniably demonstrate that those 290 00:12:46,369 --> 00:12:43,769 were indeed the lights and for me when I 291 00:12:49,009 --> 00:12:46,379 saw Ben go through this process it was 292 00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,019 alike a real aha moment it was like oh 293 00:12:53,299 --> 00:12:51,839 my gosh he just proved to me what I 294 00:12:55,669 --> 00:12:53,309 never thought could be true I never 295 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:55,679 thought it could be those oil rigs but 296 00:13:02,269 --> 00:12:58,170 yeah when you draw those lines you can 297 00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:02,279 show they line up precisely yeah yeah 298 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:04,620 but again it's not like you got to throw 299 00:13:08,509 --> 00:13:07,050 the baby out with the bathwater right 300 00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:08,519 you know there's really something was 301 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:09,860 really something going on at that time 302 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:14,100 on both Campeche was I don't think 303 00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:16,050 anything was really going on in competi 304 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:18,089 I don't think there was a UFO incident 305 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:18,450 there 306 00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:20,130 okay so we throw the baby out with the 307 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:24,540 bathwater it's just when you throw when 308 00:13:28,129 --> 00:13:26,370 all there is is bathwater that's all 309 00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:28,139 you've got now we've got a baby in 310 00:13:34,009 --> 00:13:30,360 Washington DC because in Washington DC 311 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:34,019 we do have radar data we have also a ton 312 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:37,410 of witnesses including Blue Book 313 00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:40,170 personnel themselves so there's a lot 314 00:13:44,210 --> 00:13:42,600 more data and yeah jet scrambled to 315 00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:44,220 chase these things so we have a lot more 316 00:13:50,540 --> 00:13:46,980 data and witness testimony when it comes 317 00:13:54,050 --> 00:13:50,550 to Washington DC in 1952 as compared to 318 00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:54,060 the campus I see hey going back to the 319 00:13:58,370 --> 00:13:55,740 case we were talking about the very 320 00:14:02,210 --> 00:13:58,380 first one at that lock in America 321 00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:02,220 Baltimore I believe it was yeah so that 322 00:14:06,829 --> 00:14:04,110 one uh you and I were talking on your 323 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:06,839 show about the professor of history that 324 00:14:10,939 --> 00:14:08,850 looks into UFOs and by the way he read 325 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:10,949 it he is going to be on the show by the 326 00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:14,010 way I think he's been on any shows I 327 00:14:16,970 --> 00:14:15,199 haven't seen him I looked all through 328 00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:16,980 everywhere I couldn't find him on 329 00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:20,399 anything so it's taken a chance but a 330 00:14:24,860 --> 00:14:22,230 professor of history ought to be very 331 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:24,870 interesting when it comes to you beat me 332 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:26,850 to another one I did yeah you know 333 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:29,310 that's the sort of thing where I feel 334 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:31,290 that you can't lose that someone like 335 00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,610 that is going to say something 336 00:14:36,590 --> 00:14:34,079 interesting I noticed he wrote some 337 00:14:41,930 --> 00:14:36,600 stories for the Smithsonian and he does 338 00:14:43,939 --> 00:14:41,940 seem to draw a correlation between 339 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:43,949 people claiming to have alien 340 00:14:48,829 --> 00:14:46,290 experiences and the movies especially 341 00:14:51,319 --> 00:14:48,839 Close Encounters coming out with alien 342 00:14:54,769 --> 00:14:51,329 type characters so it sounds like he's a 343 00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,779 bit skeptical in that arena however he's 344 00:14:58,430 --> 00:14:56,880 definitely into the topic and I think 345 00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:58,440 what he'll have to share is gonna be 346 00:15:03,230 --> 00:15:01,440 fascinating so that's a good job good 347 00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:03,240 job on getting him yeah well it's just 348 00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:03,750 an email 349 00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:06,720 hey Alejandro hey you and Margot you 350 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:08,670 still had oh wait you still have to tell 351 00:15:10,750 --> 00:15:10,050 me what you guys are gonna do after the 352 00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:10,760 show 353 00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:13,920 so Marek and I don't know he can explain 354 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:16,139 to you how but well let me have him 355 00:15:23,569 --> 00:15:20,310 explain all right oh hey well you know 356 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:23,579 what when you're when you do things like 357 00:15:28,009 --> 00:15:26,010 we do we talk we investigate UFOs 358 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:28,019 sometimes you have to have an outlet and 359 00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:29,850 one of my outlets that I like that I 360 00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:32,220 really think is amazing is primal 361 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:35,790 music that is the aboriginal music from 362 00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,980 Australia and you think about what kind 363 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:39,120 of instruments they use they use these 364 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:40,710 things that were basically termite 365 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:43,020 hollowed logs and they would create this 366 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:45,240 yellow for overall sound and that sound 367 00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:49,050 is generated by standing wave inside the 368 00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:50,670 tube it's called but don't worry about 369 00:15:54,830 --> 00:15:52,140 that it's it's actually called did you 370 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:54,840 redo and the didgeridoo can and has been 371 00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:57,330 used for a long time centuries actually 372 00:16:03,890 --> 00:16:00,000 to create and stories and in the dream 373 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:03,900 time in Aboriginal culture so tonight 374 00:16:07,730 --> 00:16:06,090 we're actually gonna make did you reduce 375 00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:07,740 we're gonna take a little modern 376 00:16:12,170 --> 00:16:09,000 approach we're gonna actually use PVC 377 00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:12,180 pipe which can grate beep you'll be used 378 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:13,860 as well you have to breathe special 379 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:15,510 right yeah yeah you have to do circular 380 00:16:19,370 --> 00:16:18,090 breathing which is basically like you 381 00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:19,380 constantly are breathing out of your 382 00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,000 mouth while taking breaths in through 383 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:23,040 your nose so if your listeners want to 384 00:16:26,450 --> 00:16:25,290 try that let them try it but you know 385 00:16:27,830 --> 00:16:26,460 make sure you hold on to something 386 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:27,840 because you might pass out if you're 387 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:30,090 trying to do that too much pretty cool 388 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:31,500 but that's we're gonna do we're gonna 389 00:16:33,830 --> 00:16:32,970 build did you reduce and we got a group 390 00:16:36,860 --> 00:16:33,840 of people they're getting together 391 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:36,870 tonight to do it Wow yeah that sounds 392 00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:39,450 really like new agey type of stuff to me 393 00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:41,340 but no this sounds like fun 394 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:44,220 - it sounds new agey maybe but the 395 00:16:45,620 --> 00:16:45,270 Aborigines have been doing it for 396 00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:45,630 centuries 397 00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:48,180 no no no I'm interested I'm just giving 398 00:16:51,830 --> 00:16:49,620 you our time all right you two you two 399 00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:51,840 guys Thanks thanks so much for checking 400 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:55,260 in and have fun with you do to reduce we 401 00:16:58,820 --> 00:16:57,810 will all right well didgeridoo just for 402 00:17:00,890 --> 00:16:58,830 you all right 403 00:17:05,180 --> 00:17:00,900 can't wait all right talk to you next 404 00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:05,190 week all right yeah all right all right 405 00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:05,550 everyone 406 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:09,270 so our guest is Nick Redfern he's always 407 00:17:16,550 --> 00:17:11,610 a always a pleasure to have on the show 408 00:17:19,670 --> 00:17:16,560 and this this week we are going to be 409 00:17:23,060 --> 00:17:19,680 talking about his 50th book you heard it 410 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:23,070 right 50th book he really puts out a lot 411 00:17:28,910 --> 00:17:26,130 of work and this one is called top 412 00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:28,920 secret alien abduction abduction files 413 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:30,870 what the government doesn't want you to 414 00:17:36,350 --> 00:17:33,570 know Nick welcome to the show how are 415 00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:36,360 you hey Martin I'm doing good thanks 416 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:41,940 thing very good good as always and I've 417 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:44,130 always talked to you about you're the 418 00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,110 only one I know that is so disciplined 419 00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:48,960 - right how's it feel to get to your 420 00:17:56,090 --> 00:17:53,670 50th book must be in there um I don't 421 00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,100 know really uh I mean if you ask me when 422 00:18:01,400 --> 00:17:58,320 I threatened in the first book in 97 423 00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:01,410 that 20 years later I'd have done 50 I'd 424 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:04,790 have probably said there's no way but 425 00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:07,170 but you know I mean it's it's what I 426 00:18:14,539 --> 00:18:10,140 enjoy doing you know and it's one of 427 00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:14,549 these situations where I sort of sort of 428 00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:17,640 pretty driven in the way that I the 429 00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,740 write I write the books for example I 430 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:22,080 like to sort of stick to what I call 431 00:18:26,419 --> 00:18:24,690 working hours I saw as a get off about 432 00:18:28,970 --> 00:18:26,429 server and have some breakfast and 433 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:28,980 answer emails mess around on Facebook 434 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:32,010 and I do writing for the books and the 435 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:34,410 magazines from 9:00 to 5:00 Monday to 436 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:37,890 Friday but evenings and weekends I can 437 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:40,410 literally completely switch off I don't 438 00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:43,710 do any work on evenings and I work any 439 00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:45,630 weekends that's for me where evenings 440 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:49,440 and weekends having a good time and but 441 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:51,090 I you know I do put in like an 442 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:54,330 eight-hour day Monday to Friday like 443 00:18:58,490 --> 00:18:56,250 just like a regular job but I wouldn't 444 00:19:00,440 --> 00:18:58,500 want people to think that I consider it 445 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:00,450 a just a job you know it for me it's a 446 00:19:06,020 --> 00:19:04,230 passion that I've turned into a career 447 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:06,030 as well and for me as long as I have 448 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:08,010 that passion that excited that 449 00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:12,210 excitements that sort of sense of wow 450 00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:13,830 you know this is really interesting I've 451 00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:15,500 got to investigate this as long as 452 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:19,380 although I'll keep doing it you know 453 00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:21,510 what I mean because it's what I enjoy 454 00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:22,110 doing 455 00:19:28,610 --> 00:19:23,580 whether it's investigating Bigfoot 456 00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:28,620 Rebecca bring UFO encounters so yes you 457 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:30,720 know as long as I'm happy doing it and 458 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:32,850 nothing played keep coming up with new 459 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:34,650 material which is an important thing you 460 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:36,210 don't want to just keep going over all 461 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:38,850 ground that was our next question I was 462 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:40,650 gonna ask you how do you come up with 463 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:43,290 the the topics that you come up with in 464 00:19:47,659 --> 00:19:44,970 and when you're talking about this 465 00:19:50,659 --> 00:19:47,669 discipline work that you do the the 466 00:19:52,370 --> 00:19:50,669 nine-to-five so to speak how do you do 467 00:19:54,220 --> 00:19:52,380 that when it comes to the research I 468 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:54,230 mean you know boots on the ground like 469 00:19:59,210 --> 00:19:56,910 you may have to go somewhere and look at 470 00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:59,220 files or something like that do you kind 471 00:20:01,730 --> 00:19:59,760 of 472 00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:01,740 keep it the same way or is that in a 473 00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:04,260 whole different way yeah that that 474 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:06,750 actually is pretty much a lot different 475 00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:09,210 I mean for the most part you know I am 476 00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:11,550 sort of working from home during the day 477 00:20:15,470 --> 00:20:13,620 but yeah if I'm sort of going out 478 00:20:17,570 --> 00:20:15,480 somewhere you know so let's say 479 00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:17,580 hypothetically I mean I live I live just 480 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:20,760 outside Dallas and if somebody phoned me 481 00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:21,930 up and said you know got a really 482 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:25,260 interesting story pictures etc and 483 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:26,730 they're down in Houston which is like a 484 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:30,450 five-hour drive for me then yeah that'll 485 00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:31,770 be totally different you know I'll go 486 00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:33,900 down there and just grab a room for 487 00:20:38,060 --> 00:20:36,480 overnight you know and and shout with 488 00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:38,070 the witness and so that that's sort of 489 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:41,280 totally difference yeah but in terms of 490 00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:44,970 actually doing the research you know and 491 00:20:49,610 --> 00:20:47,190 coming up with new ideas I mean I guess 492 00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:49,620 I take sort of like a journalistic 493 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:52,740 approach of just digging out stories you 494 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:54,510 know and particularly somebody shares a 495 00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:56,730 story and they're okay about using it 496 00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:00,240 and then I'll sort of look further into 497 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:02,310 the story and further and further and 498 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:05,940 get further leads and additional sources 499 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:08,730 and contacts and and the story then 500 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:11,250 starts to kind of build itself you know 501 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:13,890 it sort of has he told momentum almost I 502 00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:18,930 see now about topics though how does 503 00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:22,620 that do you like a do test that by 504 00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:24,660 talking to people or how do you how do 505 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:27,360 you figure out how to you know how to 506 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:30,170 come up with a topic that's your next 507 00:21:35,660 --> 00:21:33,090 that's a good question I mean sometimes 508 00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:35,670 it's purely and simply because there's 509 00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:38,220 something that I really want to write 510 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:41,760 about and so that's what I do but then 511 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:44,370 there are other occasions where a story 512 00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:46,890 falls in my lap which is like well 513 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:49,830 that's that's a really cool story and I 514 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:52,650 look into it further and find a lot of 515 00:21:58,210 --> 00:21:54,690 other cool aspects to the story and so 516 00:22:00,650 --> 00:21:58,220 you know then I then I pursue it further 517 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:00,660 sometimes you know you just stumble on 518 00:22:04,850 --> 00:22:03,330 something by mistake or you know with 519 00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:04,860 you're not even trying 520 00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:07,860 and I'm the more you look into it the 521 00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:10,830 more you think wow you know there's X 522 00:22:13,650 --> 00:22:12,360 number of people who know something 523 00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:13,660 about this but I 524 00:22:18,810 --> 00:22:16,600 never really shared their story and 525 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:18,820 again if they're fine with the stories 526 00:22:25,290 --> 00:22:21,850 being told etcetera but a lot of it I 527 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:25,300 guess sort of comes from me having 528 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:27,310 particularly interests in in certain 529 00:22:31,230 --> 00:22:29,530 areas and just you know just digging 530 00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:31,240 around for things that fall into those 531 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:33,460 categories like Bigfoot's or like 532 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:36,970 monsters Chupacabra man in black I just 533 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:39,850 you know sort of pursue lathes really 534 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:43,210 and then expand them too so like a 535 00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:45,970 book-length I guess so how did this 536 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:49,600 particular book alien abduction files 537 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:53,530 how did that how did that begin well 538 00:22:57,390 --> 00:22:55,810 yeah I mean with this book like in it 539 00:23:00,150 --> 00:22:57,400 likely to any book you know I'm not just 540 00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:00,160 somebody who writes books I always also 541 00:23:06,140 --> 00:23:04,030 read books you know and and of course if 542 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:06,150 you get a read a book and write a book 543 00:23:12,090 --> 00:23:10,450 you want the audience to think well you 544 00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:12,100 know this is you know this is a good 545 00:23:16,770 --> 00:23:13,630 book not only is a good book but it's 546 00:23:19,410 --> 00:23:16,780 new material or a new slant or a new 547 00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:19,420 angle on the subject and I think that's 548 00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:21,660 important you know if you're writing 549 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:24,460 books you have a responsibility to your 550 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:25,390 readership 551 00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:27,910 to give them something new with them you 552 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:31,180 know with each book so with this 553 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:33,370 particular book top-secret alien 554 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:37,330 abduction files now over the years and 555 00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:39,700 decades dozens and dozens of books have 556 00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:41,950 been written on alien abductions you 557 00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:44,740 know you've got like John Fuller's the 558 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:46,900 interrupted journey back in the 60s on 559 00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:49,930 the Betty and Barney Hill case Budd 560 00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:52,480 Hopkins missing time which was like 561 00:23:57,860 --> 00:23:54,040 soaring the definitive 562 00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:57,870 books on the subject that ran 79 80 81 563 00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:00,880 and of course whitley straight as 564 00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:04,180 communion delayed john mack his books 565 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:08,550 and so on and the subject of abductions 566 00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:12,250 interests me anyway but the one angle 567 00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:15,340 that I'd have heard snippets of and I 568 00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:17,140 think a lot of people heard snippets of 569 00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:19,600 but had not been really fleshed out to 570 00:24:24,860 --> 00:24:22,150 any significant degree was what 571 00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:24,870 government agencies may know about 572 00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:27,520 abductions about abductees 573 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:30,310 about the the agenda that's involved and 574 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:33,310 so it's I did what I always do I sort of 575 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:35,770 take a journalistic approach tried to 576 00:24:40,890 --> 00:24:37,330 track down as many people who've made 577 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:40,900 comments on this or had any experiences 578 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:42,250 you know with people from the government 579 00:24:48,030 --> 00:24:44,530 asking them about their abductions and 580 00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:48,040 again just sort of you know develops a 581 00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:50,100 situation where more and more data came 582 00:24:56,790 --> 00:24:52,390 forward and to the point where I was 583 00:25:00,330 --> 00:24:56,800 able to make you know a full manuscript 584 00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:00,340 but presented a new well that's much a 585 00:25:06,150 --> 00:25:03,760 new angle but new data demonstrating 586 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:06,160 this connection between government 587 00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:07,450 agencies and what they know about 588 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,660 abductions and but to demonstrate that 589 00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:12,880 this is you know an importance and 590 00:25:17,790 --> 00:25:14,950 intriguing aspect of the phenomenon 591 00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:17,800 namely not just the the nature of the 592 00:25:24,090 --> 00:25:21,400 abductions and the abductees but looking 593 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:24,100 at how and why government agencies are 594 00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:27,010 concerned by this as well great okay 595 00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:29,320 well hey Nick work we're at our first 596 00:25:34,890 --> 00:25:33,160 break so we're gonna go to break and so 597 00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:34,900 we'll hold that thought and we'll come 598 00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:38,350 back to it all right all right so this 599 00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:42,640 is Martin I'm with podcast UFO and my 600 00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:43,780 guest is Nick Redfern 601 00:25:51,290 --> 00:25:47,920 we're on kgr a radio and we'll be right 602 00:25:53,790 --> 00:25:51,300 back right after these messages 603 00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:53,800 clear three minutes gentlemen three 604 00:26:00,750 --> 00:25:58,960 minutes okay good so Nick I mentioned to 605 00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:00,760 you that we're good at will chat about 606 00:26:06,150 --> 00:26:02,830 off topic so we'll get back to the topic 607 00:26:07,770 --> 00:26:06,160 we're on so I was just trying to think 608 00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:07,780 of something different to talk to you 609 00:26:12,810 --> 00:26:10,630 about while we're on break and and if 610 00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:12,820 this is too personal just please let me 611 00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:15,340 know but I'm I wondered how you came 612 00:26:20,130 --> 00:26:17,920 about coming to to live in the United 613 00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:20,140 States and and end up near Dallas 614 00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:26,230 oh yeah that's okay so so how did that 615 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:28,270 all hundredths an old phone oh sorry 616 00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:30,250 yeah II wanted to keep that for the show 617 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:32,740 oh no no that's this is break break 618 00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:35,770 break stuff how I say okay well yeah 619 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:39,790 this was 2000 and 2001 620 00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:41,290 I've been over 621 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:45,190 to the United States as far back as 98 622 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:47,770 for like lectures and conferences but 623 00:26:53,270 --> 00:26:50,050 what are the people I met during the 624 00:26:55,770 --> 00:26:53,280 course of sort of doing the whole 625 00:26:58,380 --> 00:26:55,780 conference scene and so on was a guy 626 00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,390 named Ryan wood and Ryan was someone who 627 00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:00,880 used to investigate all the majestic 12 628 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:02,350 documents with his dad 629 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:04,810 Dawood and they did a huge amount of 630 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:08,200 work on this and one occasion he was 631 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:09,970 like just over a couple of beers at the 632 00:27:15,710 --> 00:27:12,970 bar Ryan said you know I'm looking for 633 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:15,720 someone who can work for me full time 634 00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:18,760 doing research and investigations and 635 00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:20,740 looking into these documents and 636 00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:22,270 tracking down people who might know 637 00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:25,000 anything about it and you know I was in 638 00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:27,340 the UK then and you know I didn't have 639 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:29,230 any ties or anything like that at all 640 00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:33,730 and and so he basically said to me no he 641 00:27:38,190 --> 00:27:34,990 said would you be interested in this 642 00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:38,200 well yeah sure and you know they said I 643 00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:40,390 you know I I enjoy sort of just 644 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:41,710 travelling around here and there I've 645 00:27:46,140 --> 00:27:44,050 never been one to worry about you know 646 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:46,150 not putting roots down on them I'm fine 647 00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:48,070 with you know just wherever the things 648 00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:52,870 tape you know and so I basically went 649 00:28:00,120 --> 00:27:55,600 through the whole immigration process 650 00:28:03,330 --> 00:28:00,130 and you know which took about 18 months 651 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:03,340 but in during that period you know I 652 00:28:10,020 --> 00:28:06,070 think about four months after I first 653 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:10,030 applied with the immigration people you 654 00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:11,050 know I was given a social security 655 00:28:16,410 --> 00:28:13,660 number and then permission to work etc 656 00:28:18,030 --> 00:28:16,420 so that then obviously Ryan had to wait 657 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:18,040 until you know I was legally able to do 658 00:28:24,650 --> 00:28:21,690 all this and then I became fully legal 659 00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:24,660 like about 18 months after that and 660 00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:27,160 that's how it all began really it was 661 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:31,360 just pure coincidence or fate everyone 662 00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:33,490 at erm it that I happen to be at the 663 00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:36,310 conference at the same time Ryan was 664 00:28:40,650 --> 00:28:37,600 looking someone to work for him 665 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:40,660 full-time and I was someone who didn't 666 00:28:45,930 --> 00:28:43,330 have and didn't have any particular ties 667 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:45,940 that would you know prevent me from 668 00:28:49,410 --> 00:28:48,070 doing it and prevent me from sort of 669 00:28:52,170 --> 00:28:49,420 traveling around the country and doing 670 00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:52,180 research for him Wow perfect well it 671 00:28:54,749 --> 00:28:53,470 looks like we came right up to the end 672 00:28:57,419 --> 00:28:54,759 of the break bill raised 673 00:28:59,669 --> 00:28:57,429 come count us back in yes and about 10 674 00:29:03,930 --> 00:28:59,679 seconds you be back alright sounds good 675 00:29:06,539 --> 00:29:03,940 alright so all right everyone in youtube 676 00:29:08,509 --> 00:29:06,549 I will let you know when the phone line 677 00:29:09,629 --> 00:29:08,519 opens that should be coming up in a bit 678 00:29:13,069 --> 00:29:09,639 okay 679 00:29:16,289 --> 00:29:13,079 you ready yeah in three two one go 680 00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:16,299 alright everyone welcome back my guest 681 00:29:23,159 --> 00:29:20,289 tonight is Nick Redfern were live on kgr 682 00:29:25,289 --> 00:29:23,169 a radio we're also on YouTube the show 683 00:29:27,479 --> 00:29:25,299 does play on the Dark Matter digital 684 00:29:29,159 --> 00:29:27,489 network on Thursdays as well hello to 685 00:29:30,779 --> 00:29:29,169 everyone over there there's a lot a lot 686 00:29:34,919 --> 00:29:30,789 of people listens over there listen over 687 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:34,929 there and so Nick before we went to 688 00:29:38,969 --> 00:29:37,329 break you were talking about you know 689 00:29:40,999 --> 00:29:38,979 the interests like certain government 690 00:29:44,219 --> 00:29:41,009 agencies are you talking about 691 00:29:47,189 --> 00:29:44,229 government agencies in which countries 692 00:29:50,159 --> 00:29:47,199 or all countries that such are several 693 00:29:53,159 --> 00:29:50,169 countries I mean well the ones I focus 694 00:29:57,449 --> 00:29:53,169 on in the book are the United States and 695 00:29:59,459 --> 00:29:57,459 the UK and that's primarily because you 696 00:30:02,430 --> 00:29:59,469 know being familiar and coming from the 697 00:30:05,129 --> 00:30:02,440 UK and living in the u.s. you know I'm 698 00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:05,139 more familiar with the events in those 699 00:30:11,699 --> 00:30:09,369 nations so in that sense yard I focused 700 00:30:15,209 --> 00:30:11,709 on some cases which are overseas in 701 00:30:17,749 --> 00:30:15,219 other countries but predominantly you 702 00:30:22,019 --> 00:30:17,759 know I do sort of focus in the on the US 703 00:30:25,289 --> 00:30:22,029 primarily and then the UK uh-huh and so 704 00:30:27,239 --> 00:30:25,299 can you go into a little bit about now 705 00:30:30,139 --> 00:30:27,249 the title your book of course is 706 00:30:32,639 --> 00:30:30,149 abduction files and that kind of 707 00:30:35,969 --> 00:30:32,649 insinuates at least to me that you're 708 00:30:37,499 --> 00:30:35,979 talking about some possible documents 709 00:30:39,419 --> 00:30:37,509 that came out of a Freedom of 710 00:30:42,689 --> 00:30:39,429 Information Act or something like that 711 00:30:45,149 --> 00:30:42,699 or that have been unclassified now or 712 00:30:46,349 --> 00:30:45,159 something yeah that's that's exactly 713 00:30:48,719 --> 00:30:46,359 what it's about you know people have 714 00:30:50,999 --> 00:30:48,729 said to every well several people have 715 00:30:52,229 --> 00:30:51,009 said words to the effect of or when look 716 00:30:55,379 --> 00:30:52,239 just like you saw when you talk about 717 00:30:58,409 --> 00:30:55,389 files you're talking about documentation 718 00:31:01,649 --> 00:30:58,419 rather than just witness testimony and 719 00:31:05,159 --> 00:31:01,659 said yes now I start the book with the 720 00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:05,169 whole contactee movement of the 1950s 721 00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:07,089 you know we had the contactees in the 722 00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:08,300 fifties 723 00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:10,940 the 60s onwards you had the abduction 724 00:31:16,450 --> 00:31:14,390 phenomenon with the abductees now the 725 00:31:19,570 --> 00:31:16,460 reason why I do this is because through 726 00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,580 the Freedom of Information Act the FBI 727 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:21,440 for example being very good at 728 00:31:27,610 --> 00:31:25,010 declassifying their previously 729 00:31:31,330 --> 00:31:27,620 classified files on many of the early 730 00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:31,340 contactees like George Adamski Truman 731 00:31:38,530 --> 00:31:35,120 bathroom George Van Tassel Orfeo Angelou 732 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:38,540 C and George hunt Williamson they were 733 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:41,090 some of the early contact even for 734 00:31:46,390 --> 00:31:42,410 people who don't know what the 735 00:31:48,730 --> 00:31:46,400 contactees are basically in the early 736 00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:48,740 50s rather than having people abducted 737 00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:52,070 by these sort of blog I'd little 738 00:31:59,890 --> 00:31:54,440 creatures people talked about having 739 00:32:04,780 --> 00:31:59,900 been invited by what we call the 740 00:32:06,990 --> 00:32:04,790 so-called space brothers now the the the 741 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:07,000 best way I can sort of describe the 742 00:32:13,780 --> 00:32:09,770 space brothers is that they were sort of 743 00:32:16,420 --> 00:32:13,790 long-haired very human looking and in 744 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:16,430 many respects looking just like us and 745 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:18,530 one of the important things about this 746 00:32:22,810 --> 00:32:20,690 is that the many of the space brothers 747 00:32:26,980 --> 00:32:22,820 told the so-called contact he's like 748 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:26,990 Adamski that one of their big turns was 749 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:30,050 the threat of atomic war and so what you 750 00:32:37,510 --> 00:32:34,190 had was a situation where people were 751 00:32:40,270 --> 00:32:37,520 following people our ski developed huge 752 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:40,280 followings and so what you had was a 753 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:43,910 situation where the FBI got very 754 00:32:48,670 --> 00:32:46,010 concerned because people like George 755 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:48,680 adapt it was saying that many of the 756 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:50,210 contacts give me many of the space 757 00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:52,910 brothers had a form of government 758 00:32:59,230 --> 00:32:55,700 not unlike communism and of course this 759 00:33:04,090 --> 00:32:59,240 was the fifties you know our theism and 760 00:33:06,340 --> 00:33:04,100 so on and as a result the the FBI got 761 00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:06,350 very concerned that some of these 762 00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:08,630 contactees were sort of swaying people 763 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:10,790 around to communism and that's why many 764 00:33:16,030 --> 00:33:12,650 of these files were opened but the 765 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:16,040 important thing is the files were open 766 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:18,770 also because the contactees were 767 00:33:23,890 --> 00:33:22,070 claiming human alien interaction 768 00:33:26,350 --> 00:33:23,900 so I mentioned all this in the book 769 00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:26,360 because it demonstrates despite some 770 00:33:30,730 --> 00:33:27,980 people said that the gods never 771 00:33:33,310 --> 00:33:30,740 investigated people claimed to have you 772 00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:33,320 know seen aliens well that's not the 773 00:33:36,340 --> 00:33:33,590 case 774 00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:36,350 I mean George Adamski's FBI file is 775 00:33:44,020 --> 00:33:40,940 about 150 pages long George Van Tassel's 776 00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:44,030 is more than 300 pages then I could go 777 00:33:52,930 --> 00:33:48,430 on and on and so that that were sort of 778 00:33:54,610 --> 00:33:52,940 demonstrates if you like the that there 779 00:33:56,590 --> 00:33:54,620 was a precedent if you lights of the 780 00:33:59,200 --> 00:33:56,600 abductions namely in the form of the 781 00:34:02,230 --> 00:33:59,210 contactees Nick do you think a lot of 782 00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,240 that had to do with just the fact that 783 00:34:07,180 --> 00:34:05,120 they could gather such a large crowd and 784 00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:07,190 had such influence on a large crowd of 785 00:34:11,170 --> 00:34:09,110 people I mean do you think that's part 786 00:34:12,700 --> 00:34:11,180 of why the I mean I personally would 787 00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:12,710 think that's part of why the FBI would 788 00:34:17,170 --> 00:34:15,110 have a file on them I'm sure they do on 789 00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:17,180 what religious and cult leaders the same 790 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:24,950 thing Nicky there maybe he didn't like 791 00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:28,970 that question alright let me try to call 792 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:35,300 him back I did notice up his his phone 793 00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:39,170 was acting funny so let me it shows it 794 00:34:47,830 --> 00:34:44,960 looks like he's still on here hang on I 795 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:47,840 will try to call him back I don't know 796 00:34:52,570 --> 00:34:50,810 what I'm guessing this is just a guess 797 00:34:55,870 --> 00:34:52,580 he might have a portable phone the 798 00:34:59,970 --> 00:34:55,880 battery went dead that's possible and he 799 00:35:05,880 --> 00:34:59,980 says he only has that one number now so 800 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:05,890 let me just see if I can try him again 801 00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:10,490 hello Nicky there hello yeah you haven't 802 00:35:16,330 --> 00:35:11,630 are you having trouble with your phone 803 00:35:18,610 --> 00:35:16,340 Nick you know what that was really they 804 00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:18,620 just went it just went blank and then 805 00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:20,060 there was just like three or four bleeps 806 00:35:24,580 --> 00:35:22,190 coming in like about every five or six 807 00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,590 seconds I just wondered if it wasn't 808 00:35:29,110 --> 00:35:26,480 your end wasn't a problem at your end oh 809 00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,120 yeah I heard nothing on this end at all 810 00:35:34,510 --> 00:35:31,280 I have heard a couple beep so here and 811 00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:34,520 then and they sound very suspicious like 812 00:35:40,510 --> 00:35:36,190 government beeps to me 813 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:40,520 all right so joke it's a joke yeah okay 814 00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:42,650 well we're back now anyway yeah but yeah 815 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:45,320 there's no doubt that as you said just 816 00:35:50,350 --> 00:35:47,690 before that I mean one of the reasons 817 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:50,360 why there was this sort of deep concern 818 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:52,730 on the part of the FBI was purely and 819 00:35:59,080 --> 00:35:55,250 simply because people like a damn ski 820 00:36:01,930 --> 00:35:59,090 and Van Tassel had had so many followers 821 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:01,940 you know and they created a great deal 822 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:05,570 of influence and you know it was one 823 00:36:11,650 --> 00:36:09,650 thing to talk about aliens but it was 824 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:11,660 another thing to say well you know the 825 00:36:16,420 --> 00:36:13,910 aliens are communist and that's one of 826 00:36:19,690 --> 00:36:16,430 the reasons at least why the FBI 827 00:36:20,770 --> 00:36:19,700 followed all these people but and in 828 00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:20,780 other words he was thrown a tional 829 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:24,260 security reasons to a degree and I think 830 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:27,290 the important thing to note is that you 831 00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:29,650 know this phenomenon kind of continued 832 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:32,300 after that but it wasn't in relation to 833 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:34,310 the contactees anymore you have this new 834 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:36,890 development in the 60s with the 835 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:40,010 abductees so because I said that the 836 00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:42,170 important thing is that we can prove 837 00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:45,200 through the freedom information but the 838 00:36:51,070 --> 00:36:48,680 files were opened on these people in the 839 00:36:53,530 --> 00:36:51,080 50s and so it makes sense that it would 840 00:36:55,690 --> 00:36:53,540 have continued in the 60s as well so 841 00:36:59,740 --> 00:36:55,700 where would you think that the beginning 842 00:37:03,400 --> 00:36:59,750 of the abductees thus the alleged 843 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:03,410 abductor file begin was a Betty Barney 844 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:07,910 Hill well I mean certainly the Betty and 845 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:10,930 Barney Hill case of September 61 was 846 00:37:17,410 --> 00:37:15,290 without doubt the one case more than any 847 00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:17,420 other that sort of gave rise to the 848 00:37:22,860 --> 00:37:20,960 abduction phenomenon but you know since 849 00:37:27,340 --> 00:37:22,870 then people have come forward and 850 00:37:29,710 --> 00:37:27,350 talking about how for example you know 851 00:37:32,830 --> 00:37:29,720 their grandmother had an experience say 852 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:32,840 in the 1930s or the 1940s a lot of 853 00:37:37,870 --> 00:37:34,730 stories like that now granted those 854 00:37:40,930 --> 00:37:37,880 stories have come through in latter days 855 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:40,940 they weren't discussed or reported in 856 00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:43,010 the thirties and forties but you know 857 00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:45,110 there's no reason to not believe the 858 00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:46,640 people who said you know that their 859 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:49,040 grandmother or great-grandmother had 860 00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:51,530 an abduction experience in the 20s or 861 00:37:57,700 --> 00:37:54,560 the 1910s or whatever but there's no 862 00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:57,710 doubt that the Betty and Barney Hill 863 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:02,240 case is certainly the one case more than 864 00:38:07,090 --> 00:38:04,850 any other that people sort of define as 865 00:38:09,220 --> 00:38:07,100 the first one and that really was 866 00:38:12,250 --> 00:38:09,230 because it was it was in the public eye 867 00:38:14,430 --> 00:38:12,260 now John fuller wrote a book about this 868 00:38:16,330 --> 00:38:14,440 called the interrupted journey and 869 00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:16,340 basically and it sort of give you a 870 00:38:21,460 --> 00:38:19,550 quick background September 61 Betty and 871 00:38:24,370 --> 00:38:21,470 Barney Hill were coming back from a 872 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:24,380 vacation in Canada and they were 873 00:38:28,420 --> 00:38:25,970 traveling through the mountains you know 874 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:28,430 it's dark night winding roads forests 875 00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:32,090 etc and they saw this strange light in 876 00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:36,260 the sky and they were sort of perplexed 877 00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,910 by what it was it didn't seem to be 878 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:39,680 acting like a regular airplane it was 879 00:38:44,380 --> 00:38:41,690 almost as if it was shadowing them and 880 00:38:47,290 --> 00:38:44,390 watching them and they got back home and 881 00:38:50,110 --> 00:38:47,300 felt kind of weird and then over the 882 00:38:52,660 --> 00:38:50,120 next day or two they started to both get 883 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:52,670 these strange nightmares and dreams of 884 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:55,250 having being stopped on the road and 885 00:39:02,520 --> 00:38:57,170 being taken onboard this craft and 886 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:02,530 subject to various stressful in genetic 887 00:39:08,410 --> 00:39:05,210 experiments and things like this and so 888 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:08,420 that was really the start of it and both 889 00:39:13,860 --> 00:39:10,850 of them suffered from what sounds very 890 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:13,870 much like like post-traumatic stress and 891 00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:16,250 the Barney got the worst of it he 892 00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:19,220 started to develop all stomach ulcers 893 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:23,240 which eventually killed him and and just 894 00:39:29,830 --> 00:39:27,710 you know a state of stress and be the 895 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:29,840 story you know he's certainly like a 896 00:39:35,530 --> 00:39:32,530 defining one for the abduction 897 00:39:37,180 --> 00:39:35,540 phenomenon but what I found during the 898 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:37,190 research was that there was an Air Force 899 00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:40,010 file on the Betty and Barney Hill case 900 00:39:44,020 --> 00:39:42,230 and what I find particularly notable 901 00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:44,030 about this is the file he tells the 902 00:39:48,970 --> 00:39:46,550 story basically as I've told you the 903 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:48,980 story now but in a in a far lengthier 904 00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:52,610 way but the Air Force took the story 905 00:39:57,700 --> 00:39:54,260 very seriously this was there was 906 00:40:00,100 --> 00:39:57,710 nothing about you know UFO cranks or 907 00:40:02,589 --> 00:40:00,110 anything like that it was a very sober 908 00:40:05,289 --> 00:40:02,599 and detailed study 909 00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:05,299 exactly what happened to them and the 910 00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:09,049 the the air force base that took all the 911 00:40:14,019 --> 00:40:12,200 details down shared the information with 912 00:40:17,259 --> 00:40:14,029 the Air Force Office of Special 913 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:17,269 Investigations who also looked into it 914 00:40:24,940 --> 00:40:21,170 and intriguingly on one occasion betty 915 00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:24,950 was speaking on the phone or 916 00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:28,609 interviewees about their case and from 917 00:40:34,539 --> 00:40:31,910 there what happened was that betty was 918 00:40:37,390 --> 00:40:34,549 asked can we put you through to another 919 00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:37,400 agency and they didn't tell her who this 920 00:40:42,249 --> 00:40:39,920 agency was but whoever it was seemed to 921 00:40:44,170 --> 00:40:42,259 know a great deal about the abduction 922 00:40:46,479 --> 00:40:44,180 phenomenon and was keen to get 923 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:46,489 information from Betty and Barney and 924 00:40:52,210 --> 00:40:48,890 she said you know to a last day she 925 00:40:55,749 --> 00:40:52,220 never did know what this agency was that 926 00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:55,759 but she was speaking to so she was 927 00:41:02,559 --> 00:40:58,880 basically handed you know patched 928 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,569 through to another agency and yeah they 929 00:41:07,809 --> 00:41:04,640 just they seemed up on the topic which 930 00:41:10,029 --> 00:41:07,819 is that kind of what you're saying yes 931 00:41:12,729 --> 00:41:10,039 that's exactly what happened they were 932 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:12,739 initially speaking to the the local air 933 00:41:16,839 --> 00:41:14,450 force base near to her where this 934 00:41:19,660 --> 00:41:16,849 experience occurred he's there for days 935 00:41:22,569 --> 00:41:19,670 mm-hmm correct yeah and when they were 936 00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:22,579 on the phone then it was there was 937 00:41:25,569 --> 00:41:24,049 nothing sort of sinister about it they 938 00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:25,579 just said would you mind if we put you 939 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:26,960 through to somebody else patch you 940 00:41:29,739 --> 00:41:27,410 through 941 00:41:32,650 --> 00:41:29,749 and she was fine about it but she never 942 00:41:36,009 --> 00:41:32,660 did learn who this other department was 943 00:41:38,229 --> 00:41:36,019 and you know whether it was one of the 944 00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:38,239 intelligence agencies whether it was 945 00:41:42,249 --> 00:41:39,920 another division in the Air Force 946 00:41:45,219 --> 00:41:42,259 we'll probably never ever know now 947 00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:45,229 unless other additional file surface but 948 00:41:51,609 --> 00:41:48,440 I do actually reproduce an example from 949 00:41:53,170 --> 00:41:51,619 the Betty and Barney Hill file in the 950 00:41:56,829 --> 00:41:53,180 book so people can see you know these 951 00:41:58,450 --> 00:41:56,839 are genuine original documents and and I 952 00:42:01,120 --> 00:41:58,460 think it's interesting that the one of 953 00:42:04,329 --> 00:42:01,130 the more notable earliest cases of 954 00:42:07,299 --> 00:42:04,339 abduction should have attracted so much 955 00:42:10,479 --> 00:42:07,309 military attention absolutely 956 00:42:12,219 --> 00:42:10,489 and so as far as the UK goes you said 957 00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:12,229 you checked basically in both both 958 00:42:18,529 --> 00:42:16,049 countries did their their pay 959 00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:18,539 first documents start about the same 960 00:42:22,579 --> 00:42:20,209 time earlier later 961 00:42:24,589 --> 00:42:22,589 yeah well that that's a good question 962 00:42:26,779 --> 00:42:24,599 because the the interesting thing is 963 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:26,789 that they actually did start roughly 964 00:42:32,329 --> 00:42:29,130 around about the same time sort of early 965 00:42:35,660 --> 00:42:32,339 1960s as things were kicking off in the 966 00:42:38,029 --> 00:42:35,670 United States now one of the cases that 967 00:42:40,609 --> 00:42:38,039 I investigate well what's intriguing is 968 00:42:44,179 --> 00:42:40,619 that several of these early nineteen 969 00:42:48,529 --> 00:42:44,189 sixties cases involved young girls and 970 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:48,539 where the military was investigating and 971 00:42:53,779 --> 00:42:51,650 interviewing them extensively and deeply 972 00:42:56,839 --> 00:42:53,789 and of course if you look at the 973 00:42:59,029 --> 00:42:56,849 abduction phenomenon it often begins in 974 00:43:01,699 --> 00:42:59,039 childhood so you know there was this 975 00:43:04,189 --> 00:43:01,709 angle with the UK where you had the Air 976 00:43:07,699 --> 00:43:04,199 Forces intelligence departments in the 977 00:43:10,009 --> 00:43:07,709 UK literally going to the houses of 978 00:43:11,660 --> 00:43:10,019 young girls when they'd heard stories 979 00:43:13,729 --> 00:43:11,670 perhaps in the local newspapers and 980 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:13,739 things like that of having seen a UFO 981 00:43:20,359 --> 00:43:16,890 and really sort of you know speaking to 982 00:43:21,799 --> 00:43:20,369 them intensely and now one of the cases 983 00:43:26,509 --> 00:43:21,809 which slightly different because it 984 00:43:29,569 --> 00:43:26,519 involves a man 1960 to a guy named 985 00:43:31,729 --> 00:43:29,579 Ronald Wildman and he was like a car 986 00:43:34,519 --> 00:43:31,739 delivery guy he was delivering a chi a 987 00:43:38,419 --> 00:43:34,529 car in the early hours of the morning to 988 00:43:41,089 --> 00:43:38,429 get there on time to the location and as 989 00:43:44,059 --> 00:43:41,099 he was driving down this lonely road the 990 00:43:46,789 --> 00:43:44,069 lights of his car started to flicker and 991 00:43:49,069 --> 00:43:46,799 go out at the same time the the car 992 00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,079 started to sort of judder and slowed 993 00:43:55,549 --> 00:43:51,599 down and with in ufology these are known 994 00:43:58,699 --> 00:43:55,559 as vehicle interference cases and he 995 00:44:01,160 --> 00:43:58,709 when he saw this strange thing in the 996 00:44:03,949 --> 00:44:01,170 sky like a classic flying saucer he 997 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:03,959 Ronald wildmen immediately made a 998 00:44:08,089 --> 00:44:05,729 connection between the sort of 999 00:44:12,439 --> 00:44:08,099 malfunctioning of the vehicle and the 1000 00:44:14,689 --> 00:44:12,449 presence of a UFO now within seconds 1001 00:44:17,749 --> 00:44:14,699 whatever this craft was it shut away and 1002 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:17,759 run a wild man's car or the car that he 1003 00:44:22,459 --> 00:44:20,249 was delivering I should say started to 1004 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:22,469 work fine again he raced to the local 1005 00:44:27,650 --> 00:44:25,249 police station told the story and 1006 00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:27,660 suddenly the the British Royal Air 1007 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:29,790 Force's provost and security 1008 00:44:36,410 --> 00:44:31,650 services as that as they were known at 1009 00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:36,420 the time came along grilled Ronald 1010 00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:38,220 Bachman about his experience now the 1011 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:41,460 Provost and security services in the UK 1012 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:43,590 are pretty much like what you would call 1013 00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:45,450 the James Bond's of the British Royal 1014 00:44:50,170 --> 00:44:48,030 Air Force they get involved in espionage 1015 00:44:53,390 --> 00:44:50,180 programs counterintelligence 1016 00:44:56,300 --> 00:44:53,400 disinformation spying on you know what 1017 00:45:00,260 --> 00:44:56,310 Russian military or and you know things 1018 00:45:02,420 --> 00:45:00,270 like that and they interviewed Ronald 1019 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:02,430 Wildman quite deeply and one of the more 1020 00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:04,710 interesting things about this particular 1021 00:45:11,660 --> 00:45:08,880 file is that he talks about how Ronald 1022 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:11,670 wildmen had seen this UFO the car had 1023 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:14,610 started to malfunction this was sort of 1024 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:16,410 about 3:00 in the morning you know when 1025 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:18,690 hardly anybody was around and weren't 1026 00:45:24,830 --> 00:45:21,450 the most intriguing but brief comments 1027 00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:24,840 that was made was that one of the Royal 1028 00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:26,880 Air Force personnel that prepared the 1029 00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:29,940 documents actually wrote in it that 1030 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:32,430 Ronald Waldman had told them that he was 1031 00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:35,970 quote modelled by the time in other 1032 00:45:42,410 --> 00:45:39,060 words you know the timeframe from when 1033 00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:42,420 he saw this UFO to when it left he said 1034 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:45,720 he was muddled by the time frame in 1035 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:48,690 terms of it seemed you know much shorter 1036 00:45:54,380 --> 00:45:50,850 than it should have been you know it 1037 00:45:56,420 --> 00:45:54,390 seemed like it was all over in you know 1038 00:45:59,330 --> 00:45:56,430 five minutes or thereabouts maybe even 1039 00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:59,340 less but afterwards when he when he 1040 00:46:02,270 --> 00:46:01,200 arrived at the police station it seemed 1041 00:46:05,540 --> 00:46:02,280 you know there was like two hours 1042 00:46:07,850 --> 00:46:05,550 missing so it's clearly a case again of 1043 00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:07,860 what we would call missing time and 1044 00:46:12,530 --> 00:46:09,660 there are sort of indications in the 1045 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,540 file that this you know they realize 1046 00:46:18,290 --> 00:46:15,060 this is a significant case hence why 1047 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:18,300 they sent out the military and it makes 1048 00:46:22,970 --> 00:46:20,850 me think or suspect that they that 1049 00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:22,980 wasn't the first case they had on file 1050 00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:26,040 in the UK of missing time and somebody 1051 00:46:30,260 --> 00:46:27,900 driving down the road late at night and 1052 00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:30,270 the car stalls and then before they know 1053 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:33,710 it they're missing two or three hours 1054 00:46:40,700 --> 00:46:37,530 interesting so other other like noted 1055 00:46:43,850 --> 00:46:40,710 commonalities besides missing time that 1056 00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:43,860 these people seem to be reporting well 1057 00:46:49,070 --> 00:46:46,380 yeah I mean one of them is obviously 1058 00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:49,080 missing time another one is that most of 1059 00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:51,510 these experiences occur late at night 1060 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:54,150 whether it's at home or like we've run a 1061 00:46:57,950 --> 00:46:54,930 while man 1062 00:47:00,890 --> 00:46:57,960 you know on isolated roads now the fact 1063 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:00,900 that so many of these events do occur 1064 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:03,690 are isolated roads makes me think that 1065 00:47:09,770 --> 00:47:06,770 whatever these abductors are they're not 1066 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:09,780 all-powerful you know that it's as if 1067 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:12,690 they're limited in their abilities which 1068 00:47:17,870 --> 00:47:15,570 may be why they do choose people on 1069 00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:17,880 late-night roads you know early hours of 1070 00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:20,340 the morning isolated areas where they're 1071 00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:21,900 not going to be seen so that does sound 1072 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:24,230 like you know they're not sort of 1073 00:47:31,070 --> 00:47:27,090 all-powerful entities you know that they 1074 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:31,080 are potentially flawed in some ways and 1075 00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:33,210 and that's why they they're forced to 1076 00:47:39,710 --> 00:47:36,420 sort of you know camouflage themselves 1077 00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:39,720 in terms of just coming out at night but 1078 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:41,310 I mean there are other angles as well 1079 00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:43,290 you know that the vehicles starting to 1080 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:45,540 play up and the engines and the lights 1081 00:47:53,330 --> 00:47:49,530 going out and so on you can find those 1082 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:53,340 throughout numerous UFO cases not just 1083 00:47:58,610 --> 00:47:55,650 in the UK or the US but all around the 1084 00:48:01,280 --> 00:47:58,620 world there was a wave of sightings or 1085 00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:01,290 events exactly like this in Levelland 1086 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:05,460 Texas in 1957 where again so like 1087 00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:07,530 classic flying saucer type craft was 1088 00:48:12,350 --> 00:48:10,230 seen and as people's vehicles got close 1089 00:48:13,940 --> 00:48:12,360 you know the engine would splutter the 1090 00:48:16,610 --> 00:48:13,950 lights would go off and then the car 1091 00:48:20,180 --> 00:48:16,620 would come to a complete halt until the 1092 00:48:22,460 --> 00:48:20,190 craft advanced so you know I think it's 1093 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:22,470 interesting that there are these themes 1094 00:48:27,980 --> 00:48:25,050 that sort of run through so many of 1095 00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:27,990 these abduction cases I do too that that 1096 00:48:33,860 --> 00:48:31,380 part has always really fascinated me and 1097 00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:33,870 I did speak to someone that had that 1098 00:48:41,330 --> 00:48:36,000 particular situation happened their car 1099 00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:41,340 died and those those are just so 1100 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:44,430 unexplainable and there are so many of 1101 00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:46,170 them as a matter of fact you know during 1102 00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:48,780 the news Alejandro and I or he was 1103 00:48:56,830 --> 00:48:51,960 discussing a case and I forget lochhaven 1104 00:49:01,460 --> 00:48:56,840 I believe it's called in in Baltimore 1105 00:49:04,820 --> 00:49:01,470 it's a reservoir for ball two reservoirs 1106 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:04,830 more reservoir and that's the same thing 1107 00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:06,210 that happened there you know the car 1108 00:49:10,430 --> 00:49:08,160 died the lights went out everything 1109 00:49:12,860 --> 00:49:10,440 electrical goes out and then when the 1110 00:49:15,890 --> 00:49:12,870 thing goes away everything works again I 1111 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:15,900 mean what electromagnetics I think are I 1112 00:49:21,070 --> 00:49:18,050 don't understand how that happens but 1113 00:49:23,390 --> 00:49:21,080 it's it's even more curious how 1114 00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:23,400 everything just seems to work again 1115 00:49:28,340 --> 00:49:25,200 you know I don't I don't know what kind 1116 00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:28,350 of electrical you know wave could make 1117 00:49:33,650 --> 00:49:31,380 that happen like that yeah it is it 1118 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:33,660 makes Italy weird because sometimes you 1119 00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:35,610 know the whole car just fails other 1120 00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:37,980 occasions you know it's just the lights 1121 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:41,550 so you know it is sort of weird how you 1122 00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:44,130 know even certain parts the parts of the 1123 00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:46,110 car are being affected rather than the 1124 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:48,420 whole thing and then the other thing you 1125 00:49:52,970 --> 00:49:50,970 hear about is camera batteries whether 1126 00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:52,980 it's a phone or you know whether it's 1127 00:49:58,660 --> 00:49:55,200 someone with a video camera all of a 1128 00:50:04,220 --> 00:49:58,670 sudden their battery's dead you know and 1129 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:04,230 strange things so this in the UK we were 1130 00:50:12,020 --> 00:50:08,730 talking would you say that there's a lot 1131 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:12,030 of files out there about abductions or 1132 00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:14,490 is it just here and there I mean what 1133 00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,980 did you find in your research well I 1134 00:50:21,500 --> 00:50:18,960 mean it's difficult to say for sure 1135 00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:21,510 because you know it took a lot of time 1136 00:50:27,380 --> 00:50:24,030 and effort to forget a lot of these 1137 00:50:29,530 --> 00:50:27,390 files but you know I think an argument 1138 00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:29,540 could be made that there could be 1139 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:31,710 hundreds and hundreds of files the 1140 00:50:39,110 --> 00:50:35,130 problem is is trying to identify what 1141 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:39,120 agency is responsible for keeping these 1142 00:50:45,650 --> 00:50:43,290 files and and where they're held as well 1143 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:45,660 and it's also possible that perhaps some 1144 00:50:52,310 --> 00:50:48,570 of this research has been sort of farmed 1145 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:52,320 out to private corporations which makes 1146 00:50:56,810 --> 00:50:54,690 it even more difficult to try and get 1147 00:50:58,700 --> 00:50:56,820 the files because private corporations 1148 00:51:00,830 --> 00:50:58,710 aren't subject to the Freedom of 1149 00:51:03,770 --> 00:51:00,840 Information Act you know and very often 1150 00:51:06,260 --> 00:51:03,780 government agencies do contracts the 1151 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:06,270 work outside is like for example you 1152 00:51:11,140 --> 00:51:08,450 look at you know US Air Force me 1153 00:51:12,819 --> 00:51:11,150 three planes well the US Air Force 1154 00:51:14,460 --> 00:51:12,829 doesn't build the planes you know he 1155 00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:14,470 gets companies like Lockheed 1156 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:16,910 mcdonald-douglas to make the planes for 1157 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:19,730 them but they're contracted and it would 1158 00:51:25,180 --> 00:51:22,490 not surprise me if you know sort of 1159 00:51:29,170 --> 00:51:25,190 private security corporations and things 1160 00:51:31,390 --> 00:51:29,180 like that may have been enlisted to help 1161 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:31,400 in this in some cases there's some 1162 00:51:37,329 --> 00:51:33,170 evidence for this that it sort of done 1163 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:37,339 by almost like outside agencies that 1164 00:51:41,770 --> 00:51:39,170 aren't directly connected to the 1165 00:51:43,780 --> 00:51:41,780 government but are doing the work on the 1166 00:51:46,089 --> 00:51:43,790 government's behalf you know now I've 1167 00:51:50,530 --> 00:51:46,099 heard now you correct me if I'm wrong in 1168 00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:50,540 this but I heard in the UK that you with 1169 00:51:55,540 --> 00:51:52,880 the Freedom of Information Act you can 1170 00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:55,550 get documents but they're costly as our 1171 00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:57,770 does cost some money to do this it's not 1172 00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:59,839 like in the United States where there's 1173 00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:01,520 no charge they actually charge you is 1174 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:06,079 that is that good information yeah some 1175 00:52:10,839 --> 00:52:08,570 of the files you can just you can get 1176 00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:10,849 free when they've been up Declassified 1177 00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:14,569 and so on but there's some times when if 1178 00:52:21,609 --> 00:52:18,640 the files haven't been Declassified and 1179 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:21,619 the you know the relevant person in the 1180 00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:23,450 office that does the you know one of the 1181 00:52:27,730 --> 00:52:25,790 people that sort of does the searching 1182 00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:27,740 for the files you know in these massive 1183 00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:30,710 archives they will charge you for the 1184 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:33,440 time you know that it took them to find 1185 00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,210 the files but that's just that party's 1186 00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:36,800 the same in the United States for 1187 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:39,470 example let's say that it with the FBI 1188 00:52:45,309 --> 00:52:42,410 you know say you were looking for a file 1189 00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:45,319 on some obscure UFO researcher in the 1190 00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:50,270 50s and if the FBI hasn't Declassified 1191 00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:52,730 that file they will then have to go to 1192 00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:55,280 their archives and see if they have 1193 00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:57,890 anything under that person's name and if 1194 00:53:03,430 --> 00:52:59,839 it takes them sort of five or six hours 1195 00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:03,440 to you know find the material and check 1196 00:53:07,329 --> 00:53:05,510 it and then another five hours to go 1197 00:53:09,370 --> 00:53:07,339 through the file to see if there any 1198 00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:09,380 security issues that may be blacked out 1199 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:12,260 they will they will basically write back 1200 00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:15,770 to you and say okay we found a file or 1201 00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:20,720 we suspect there's a file but wheatus we 1202 00:53:23,799 --> 00:53:21,920 also 1203 00:53:27,130 --> 00:53:23,809 calculate that it's going to take sort 1204 00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:27,140 of 36 man-hours to answer your questions 1205 00:53:32,530 --> 00:53:28,880 they will charge you for that as well 1206 00:53:34,599 --> 00:53:32,540 that in the United States now in the big 1207 00:53:37,660 --> 00:53:34,609 difference in the UK's that a lot of the 1208 00:53:40,780 --> 00:53:37,670 files as they're Declassified they'll 1209 00:53:42,309 --> 00:53:40,790 charge you for the for copying them they 1210 00:53:45,010 --> 00:53:42,319 don't charge you for seeing them if you 1211 00:53:47,770 --> 00:53:45,020 want to go to the archives in London or 1212 00:53:49,329 --> 00:53:47,780 just outside London you can just go 1213 00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:49,339 there and look at the files and make 1214 00:53:53,980 --> 00:53:51,680 pencil notes and copy them but that they 1215 00:53:57,420 --> 00:53:53,990 will charge you for photocopying the 1216 00:54:00,460 --> 00:53:57,430 documents okay it sound it sounded to me 1217 00:54:03,339 --> 00:54:00,470 that it was a real costly thing but I 1218 00:54:06,039 --> 00:54:03,349 guess it that was just uh someone said 1219 00:54:08,380 --> 00:54:06,049 well well the only way reason why it 1220 00:54:10,990 --> 00:54:08,390 would be really costly will be let's say 1221 00:54:13,450 --> 00:54:11,000 you know they charge 50 cents or 1222 00:54:15,609 --> 00:54:13,460 something a page to photocopy of them 1223 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:15,619 and the file happens to be like 300 1224 00:54:19,780 --> 00:54:17,690 pages you know what I mean 1225 00:54:22,059 --> 00:54:19,790 then he would be costly but that's 1226 00:54:24,490 --> 00:54:22,069 purely and simply because the file might 1227 00:54:26,650 --> 00:54:24,500 be so big you know it's a file is sort 1228 00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:26,660 of fifteen pages and they're going to 1229 00:54:31,450 --> 00:54:29,359 charge you fifty cents well that's not 1230 00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:31,460 bad you know because they would print a 1231 00:54:38,770 --> 00:54:34,400 copy for them copy them for you and mail 1232 00:54:41,069 --> 00:54:38,780 them to you or email them as a PDF some 1233 00:54:44,049 --> 00:54:41,079 agencies will do that 1234 00:54:47,650 --> 00:54:44,059 so it really depends on you know the 1235 00:54:49,299 --> 00:54:47,660 size of the file how long it takes them 1236 00:54:51,309 --> 00:54:49,309 to find the file if it hasn't already 1237 00:54:53,650 --> 00:54:51,319 been Declassified you know so there are 1238 00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:53,660 issues like that that have a bearing on 1239 00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:56,210 whether or not there's an actual cost 1240 00:55:02,349 --> 00:55:00,319 involved or not I see and I I didn't you 1241 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:02,359 know I I think I just spoke to someone 1242 00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,890 where they said that it was just too 1243 00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:05,359 costly and they weren't even going to go 1244 00:55:09,789 --> 00:55:08,089 forward with it so I I don't have any 1245 00:55:12,579 --> 00:55:09,799 idea what they well I'll tell you why 1246 00:55:14,799 --> 00:55:12,589 that is in the UK because a lot of the 1247 00:55:19,270 --> 00:55:14,809 files are really thick and and the 1248 00:55:22,839 --> 00:55:19,280 reason being that the UK files their UFO 1249 00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:22,849 UFO files in a different way to the u.s. 1250 00:55:27,849 --> 00:55:25,520 now in the u.s. many of the files are 1251 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:27,859 you know that while the files are sort 1252 00:55:33,970 --> 00:55:31,970 of split into separate cases so if you 1253 00:55:35,710 --> 00:55:33,980 just wanted a file on John Smith 1254 00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:35,720 sighting from 1960 1255 00:55:39,010 --> 00:55:37,250 it might be just seven or eight pages 1256 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:39,020 and they probably wouldn't even charge 1257 00:55:44,140 --> 00:55:42,050 you for that but in the UK the the 1258 00:55:48,220 --> 00:55:44,150 militia defense didn't split their files 1259 00:55:52,750 --> 00:55:48,230 by cases they split them by years so in 1260 00:55:56,020 --> 00:55:52,760 other words the the UK files are huge 1261 00:55:58,810 --> 00:55:56,030 because they're not split into simple 1262 00:56:02,500 --> 00:55:58,820 similar separate case files they're all 1263 00:56:06,820 --> 00:56:02,510 contained in like January the 1st of 362 1264 00:56:09,730 --> 00:56:06,830 December 31st you know 365 days in other 1265 00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:09,740 words the the British files are so 1266 00:56:15,339 --> 00:56:13,550 expensive or can be because there's a 1267 00:56:16,450 --> 00:56:15,349 year's worth of files in there you see 1268 00:56:19,060 --> 00:56:16,460 what I mean I got it 1269 00:56:21,490 --> 00:56:19,070 whereas in the u.s. they're not they're 1270 00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:21,500 not split by or contained by year 1271 00:56:27,220 --> 00:56:24,070 they're they're actually split by case 1272 00:56:28,839 --> 00:56:27,230 yeah I see okay well we're gonna go into 1273 00:56:31,390 --> 00:56:28,849 the break now my guest 1274 00:56:35,140 --> 00:56:31,400 is Nick Redfern this is Martin Willis 1275 00:56:38,260 --> 00:56:35,150 with podcast UFO we're on kgr a radio 1276 00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:38,270 and we are going to talk on the at the 1277 00:56:44,620 --> 00:56:42,400 break about we're actually going to be 1278 00:56:47,890 --> 00:56:44,630 answering some questions that came in on 1279 00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:47,900 the chat so alright we'll be right back 1280 00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:51,710 hang in there okay clear three minutes 1281 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:53,119 three minutes got it 1282 00:56:59,980 --> 00:56:56,530 okay all right Nick so I am going to 1283 00:57:01,829 --> 00:56:59,990 move over and look at the chat room and 1284 00:57:08,970 --> 00:57:01,839 see if we have any questions someone 1285 00:57:12,730 --> 00:57:08,980 wanted to know what we thought about 1286 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:12,740 valiant Thor now valiant Thor was this 1287 00:57:18,070 --> 00:57:15,530 guy supposedly that you know he said he 1288 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:18,080 was a he told the government he was an 1289 00:57:23,770 --> 00:57:20,450 alien I can't remember a whole lot about 1290 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:23,780 him mrs. back and decades ago right do 1291 00:57:29,950 --> 00:57:27,170 you know anything about yeah story told 1292 00:57:31,930 --> 00:57:29,960 by a guy named Frank strangers as there 1293 00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:31,940 was a UFO research in the 50s and he 1294 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:35,200 claimed to have met this human looking 1295 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:38,330 alien called Balian Thor who had 1296 00:57:44,740 --> 00:57:40,490 infiltrated the Pentagon and was trying 1297 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:44,750 to sort of change our mindset in terms 1298 00:57:48,690 --> 00:57:47,450 of you know military and confrontations 1299 00:57:51,839 --> 00:57:48,700 with the Russians 1300 00:57:55,410 --> 00:57:51,849 and and again you know one of the big 1301 00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:55,420 concerns was the extent to which the 1302 00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:58,960 public would be influenced you know by 1303 00:58:04,109 --> 00:58:01,599 this but it wasn't an abduction case it 1304 00:58:06,780 --> 00:58:04,119 was it was a contact a case right right 1305 00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:06,790 someone also wants to know what your 1306 00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:11,680 thoughts are on skinwalker ranch okay 1307 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:14,020 well yeah I mean I think that's yummy I 1308 00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:15,810 can talk about that you know the idea of 1309 00:58:19,950 --> 00:58:18,160 portals and doorways and strange 1310 00:58:22,319 --> 00:58:19,960 creatures coming through I mean you can 1311 00:58:24,810 --> 00:58:22,329 find parallels to the skinwalker ranch 1312 00:58:27,180 --> 00:58:24,820 all around the world you know these sort 1313 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:27,190 of window areas as john cale called them 1314 00:58:32,910 --> 00:58:30,130 so yeah I think it's a valid phenomenon 1315 00:58:36,750 --> 00:58:32,920 I don't pretend to understand how it 1316 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:36,760 works but I mean you know skinwalker 1317 00:58:42,180 --> 00:58:39,250 ranch is probably the best most 1318 00:58:45,089 --> 00:58:42,190 well-known aspect of what is actually 1319 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:45,099 like a worldwide type of phenomena 1320 00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:47,170 portals and doorways and things like 1321 00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:48,880 that you know yeah it sure is a strange 1322 00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:52,630 place I think it's it's it's I don't 1323 00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:54,400 know if it's the strangest place in the 1324 00:58:59,640 --> 00:58:57,210 world but it's gotta be on the top list 1325 00:59:01,980 --> 00:58:59,650 yeah I've never been there but I mean 1326 00:59:05,339 --> 00:59:01,990 you know from the people who I've spoken 1327 00:59:07,380 --> 00:59:05,349 to who have been there and of course you 1328 00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:07,390 know Colin Keller and George Knapp's 1329 00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:10,000 book on the subject I mean it makes it 1330 00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:12,160 clear that there's something really 1331 00:59:17,339 --> 00:59:15,280 weird going on that's for sure here's an 1332 00:59:20,490 --> 00:59:17,349 unusual question one that I've never 1333 00:59:23,339 --> 00:59:20,500 thought of are there any reports of UFOs 1334 00:59:25,550 --> 00:59:23,349 near cemeteries or at funerals I've 1335 00:59:29,099 --> 00:59:25,560 never heard of anything have you 1336 00:59:30,990 --> 00:59:29,109 that's good Halloween question that is 1337 00:59:33,690 --> 00:59:31,000 good for Halloween the only thing I can 1338 00:59:37,589 --> 00:59:33,700 think of that is kind of spooky for 1339 00:59:40,170 --> 00:59:37,599 Halloween is that the in 1966 when the 1340 00:59:42,750 --> 00:59:40,180 whole Mothman phenomenon kicked off in 1341 00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:42,760 Point Pleasant West Virginia well 1342 00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:45,760 actually before it all kicked off in 1343 00:59:50,130 --> 00:59:47,920 Point Pleasant just a week before 1344 00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:50,140 I'm sorry nickim I hate to do this but 1345 00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:51,609 we're right at the end of the break I 1346 00:59:56,099 --> 00:59:54,130 know so we can we'll talk about that and 1347 00:59:58,620 --> 00:59:56,109 during the show yeah all right go ahead 1348 00:59:59,400 --> 00:59:58,630 bill well coming back in about 15 1349 01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:59,410 seconds 1350 01:00:02,460 --> 01:00:01,119 all right so we'll bring that we'll 1351 01:00:04,890 --> 01:00:02,470 bring that whole topic up there 1352 01:00:10,530 --> 01:00:04,900 the show and we're going an hour 1353 01:00:14,790 --> 01:00:10,540 straight right right yes okay then bye 1354 01:00:17,010 --> 01:00:14,800 in three two one go 1355 01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:17,020 alright welcome back this is Martin 1356 01:00:22,740 --> 01:00:19,119 Willis my guest is Nick Redfern 1357 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:22,750 we're on kgr a radio alive and we're 1358 01:00:27,690 --> 01:00:25,810 also over on YouTube live we're gonna be 1359 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:27,700 taking calls after the first part of the 1360 01:00:33,660 --> 01:00:30,970 hour during the break someone asks kind 1361 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:33,670 of a Halloween related question like 1362 01:00:39,420 --> 01:00:35,730 have there been any UFO sightings over 1363 01:00:41,849 --> 01:00:39,430 any funerals or cemeteries and Nick 1364 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:41,859 started to talk about the Mothman so 1365 01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:43,690 Nick do you want to just continue I know 1366 01:00:49,940 --> 01:00:47,470 this is a kind of jumping in a whole 1367 01:00:53,370 --> 01:00:49,950 different topic that's cool yeah yeah 1368 01:00:56,790 --> 01:00:53,380 well yeah I mean I'm not personally 1369 01:00:59,190 --> 01:00:56,800 aware of sort of you know a direct UFO 1370 01:01:01,380 --> 01:00:59,200 you know cemetary type connection but 1371 01:01:05,970 --> 01:01:01,390 one of the things I can say for sure is 1372 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:05,980 that when in December 1966 which was 1373 01:01:11,099 --> 01:01:08,770 when the whole Martha screaming November 1374 01:01:13,620 --> 01:01:11,109 66 or when the whole marked man 1375 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:13,630 phenomenon began in Point Pleasant West 1376 01:01:18,750 --> 01:01:15,730 Virginia you know this sort of winged 1377 01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:18,760 humanoid thing with these fiery glowing 1378 01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:21,040 red eyes which john cale wrote about in 1379 01:01:25,740 --> 01:01:24,400 his book the Mothman Prophecies now a 1380 01:01:28,589 --> 01:01:25,750 lot of people don't know is that 1381 01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:28,599 although Point Pleasant was the focus of 1382 01:01:35,490 --> 01:01:31,180 all this activity the very first 1383 01:01:37,770 --> 01:01:35,500 sighting of Mothman was made at a little 1384 01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:37,780 town just about a 30-minute drive from 1385 01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:40,720 Point Pleasant and what happened in this 1386 01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:42,640 particular case was that there were 1387 01:01:47,730 --> 01:01:45,520 three grave diggers digging a grave in a 1388 01:01:51,390 --> 01:01:47,740 local cemetery when they saw this 1389 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:51,400 Mothman type creature flying or gliding 1390 01:01:55,980 --> 01:01:53,170 over the cemetery and then vanished into 1391 01:01:59,460 --> 01:01:55,990 the darkness so you know that's that's 1392 01:02:01,260 --> 01:01:59,470 sort of a there's no UFO components but 1393 01:02:04,530 --> 01:02:01,270 it's sort of a classic case of a strange 1394 01:02:08,220 --> 01:02:04,540 creature suddenly manifesting out of 1395 01:02:10,980 --> 01:02:08,230 nowhere over a cemetery right right and 1396 01:02:15,329 --> 01:02:10,990 I know from our previous conversations 1397 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:15,339 that you really are it's kind of more of 1398 01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:16,130 your Bailey 1399 01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:18,890 Wyck when it comes to like cryptozoology 1400 01:02:23,830 --> 01:02:20,480 and stuff like that right I mean that's 1401 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:23,840 something you really yeah yeah I mean 1402 01:02:29,290 --> 01:02:26,210 you know the whole phenomenon of 1403 01:02:32,410 --> 01:02:29,300 cryptozoology probably in many respects 1404 01:02:33,910 --> 01:02:32,420 is more intriguing to many I enjoy it 1405 01:02:36,100 --> 01:02:33,920 because you know 1406 01:02:38,350 --> 01:02:36,110 cryptozoology saw that lends itself more 1407 01:02:41,290 --> 01:02:38,360 to expeditions and road trips which is 1408 01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:41,300 what I enjoy you know as much as I enjoy 1409 01:02:47,830 --> 01:02:45,050 and find the UFO subjects intriguing you 1410 01:02:49,690 --> 01:02:47,840 know if you get a story ten years later 1411 01:02:51,780 --> 01:02:49,700 there's not much you can do about it 1412 01:02:54,250 --> 01:02:51,790 other than just sort of chronically but 1413 01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:54,260 you know if you get the reports from 1414 01:02:58,900 --> 01:02:56,720 like a local forest or like of a strange 1415 01:03:01,960 --> 01:02:58,910 creature you can be on the scene and 1416 01:03:05,380 --> 01:03:01,970 investigate it and maybe one day find 1417 01:03:07,780 --> 01:03:05,390 something so you know but things like 1418 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:07,790 Mothman that's one of my sort of more 1419 01:03:11,950 --> 01:03:10,250 things that you know I'm sort of drawn 1420 01:03:16,030 --> 01:03:11,960 to investigate and I've been to Point 1421 01:03:18,220 --> 01:03:16,040 Pleasant and three or four occasions you 1422 01:03:21,220 --> 01:03:18,230 know and it's an intriguing place if the 1423 01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:21,230 town is sort of is today dominated by 1424 01:03:27,210 --> 01:03:23,710 the legend of the Mothman they have this 1425 01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:27,220 yearly festival which literally attacks 1426 01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:31,910 attaches about 10-12 thousand people 1427 01:03:36,610 --> 01:03:34,640 turn up for it it's like a like a like a 1428 01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:36,620 County Fair that kind of thing rather 1429 01:03:43,450 --> 01:03:41,690 than a down-to-earth conference but yeah 1430 01:03:45,940 --> 01:03:43,460 I mean that the whole Mothman thing is 1431 01:03:49,030 --> 01:03:45,950 something that intrigues me and I went 1432 01:03:52,690 --> 01:03:49,040 to the most recent festival back in 1433 01:03:54,970 --> 01:03:52,700 September with several friends and you 1434 01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:54,980 know the the interest and the intrigue 1435 01:04:01,420 --> 01:03:57,680 is just as much as it was way back in 1436 01:04:03,970 --> 01:04:01,430 the sixties interesting Wow all right so 1437 01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:03,980 we'll get back to we'll get back to your 1438 01:04:09,100 --> 01:04:06,530 book before we do I just wanted to 1439 01:04:11,110 --> 01:04:09,110 announce that anyone can call in that 1440 01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:11,120 phone number is up on the screen on 1441 01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:14,720 YouTube and for those of you over at kgr 1442 01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:18,170 a radio that number is six oh three nine 1443 01:04:24,460 --> 01:04:22,010 six seven four OH three oh that number 1444 01:04:27,670 --> 01:04:24,470 is only live during the show that's all 1445 01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:27,680 that numbers used for so I ring x' all 1446 01:04:35,299 --> 01:04:29,920 the time and anyway 1447 01:04:37,829 --> 01:04:35,309 so now getting I want to get back to the 1448 01:04:41,250 --> 01:04:37,839 your book what would you say is the 1449 01:04:43,559 --> 01:04:41,260 latest of the files that you have 1450 01:04:48,030 --> 01:04:43,569 uncovered in other words the most 1451 01:04:50,370 --> 01:04:48,040 contemporary well in terms of the files 1452 01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:50,380 you know there's many of the files that 1453 01:04:57,210 --> 01:04:53,920 are potentially available you know sort 1454 01:04:59,819 --> 01:04:57,220 of go back to the 80s and 90s but in 1455 01:05:02,220 --> 01:04:59,829 terms of the cases where people have 1456 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:02,230 spoken about government interesting 1457 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:04,450 abductions that actually go right up 1458 01:05:07,950 --> 01:05:07,450 till last year and also focuses on the 1459 01:05:11,010 --> 01:05:07,960 Mothman 1460 01:05:14,250 --> 01:05:11,020 now one of the things I talk about in 1461 01:05:16,859 --> 01:05:14,260 the book is a wave of sightings of 1462 01:05:20,250 --> 01:05:16,869 creatures very much like Mothman that 1463 01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:20,260 were made around Chicago right last year 1464 01:05:25,500 --> 01:05:23,200 yes sort of a about 15 months ago 16 1465 01:05:28,230 --> 01:05:25,510 months ago something like that and you 1466 01:05:31,020 --> 01:05:28,240 had a lot of people seeing usually late 1467 01:05:36,780 --> 01:05:31,030 at night we sort of large wings humanoid 1468 01:05:38,809 --> 01:05:36,790 finger you know sort of red eyes and to 1469 01:05:42,180 --> 01:05:38,819 many people it was sort of seen as like 1470 01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:42,190 as a precursor of doom and tragedy and 1471 01:05:47,730 --> 01:05:45,010 people got a weird vibe just from seeing 1472 01:05:49,559 --> 01:05:47,740 it usually sort of you know late at 1473 01:05:54,990 --> 01:05:49,569 night perched on the buildings in 1474 01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:55,000 Chicago and so the the phenomenon grew 1475 01:05:59,220 --> 01:05:56,290 and grew to where there were literally 1476 01:06:01,650 --> 01:05:59,230 dozens and dozens of people reporting 1477 01:06:03,569 --> 01:06:01,660 sightings of this strange creature now 1478 01:06:06,089 --> 01:06:03,579 what's intriguing is that a number of 1479 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:06,099 those people who reported seeing the 1480 01:06:12,329 --> 01:06:09,970 Mothman were also alien abductees and I 1481 01:06:14,730 --> 01:06:12,339 was actually able to interview one of 1482 01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:14,740 the women who fought who fell into that 1483 01:06:22,530 --> 01:06:18,490 category personally and she told me a 1484 01:06:24,750 --> 01:06:22,540 fascinating story of how she and many 1485 01:06:28,170 --> 01:06:24,760 other people who she was speaking to as 1486 01:06:31,530 --> 01:06:28,180 well had seen sightings of this Mothman 1487 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:31,540 type creature around Chicago and then in 1488 01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:34,450 the scene the following night sort of a 1489 01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:36,250 you know one night after two nights 1490 01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:39,609 after three nights after they started to 1491 01:06:43,559 --> 01:06:42,880 have really sort of nightmarish dreams 1492 01:06:48,779 --> 01:06:43,569 of 1493 01:06:52,709 --> 01:06:48,789 obliterated and you know millions dead 1494 01:06:56,609 --> 01:06:52,719 and and a number of people in that 1495 01:07:00,059 --> 01:06:56,619 period talked about this angle of sort 1496 01:07:01,949 --> 01:07:00,069 of having apocalyptic dreams in the wake 1497 01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:01,959 of seeing this Mothman type crater in 1498 01:07:07,469 --> 01:07:03,910 Chicago and I did a couple of articles 1499 01:07:10,769 --> 01:07:07,479 on this issue for mysterious universe 1500 01:07:15,269 --> 01:07:10,779 and I got as a response probably now 1501 01:07:17,910 --> 01:07:15,279 about 30 or 40 cases where most of them 1502 01:07:21,329 --> 01:07:17,920 around Chicago many of the people Rab 1503 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:21,339 dirties and they had these nightmarish 1504 01:07:25,699 --> 01:07:23,650 dreams of just you know just massive 1505 01:07:28,910 --> 01:07:25,709 destruction and you know the end of 1506 01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:28,920 civilization and country and ruins and 1507 01:07:36,539 --> 01:07:33,039 one of the the the women I spoke to tell 1508 01:07:39,329 --> 01:07:36,549 me how she had a knock on the door and a 1509 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:39,339 man identified himself and this was 1510 01:07:43,709 --> 01:07:41,170 someone who had actually gone out there 1511 01:07:44,999 --> 01:07:43,719 and told her story and that that's an 1512 01:07:47,999 --> 01:07:45,009 important thing I think that's how she 1513 01:07:50,519 --> 01:07:48,009 was tracked down and and there was a 1514 01:07:55,620 --> 01:07:50,529 knock on the door and it was not like a 1515 01:07:58,140 --> 01:07:55,630 like a stressful intimidating man men in 1516 01:08:00,479 --> 01:07:58,150 black type situation it was basically a 1517 01:08:04,769 --> 01:08:00,489 guy involved in sort of national 1518 01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:04,779 security issues defense issues and said 1519 01:08:09,180 --> 01:08:06,910 can I speak to your about you statement 1520 01:08:12,239 --> 01:08:09,190 that you put out there and she was a bit 1521 01:08:15,180 --> 01:08:12,249 shocked I guess most people would be but 1522 01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:15,190 she said yes invited him in and he was 1523 01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:18,250 very concerned about the nature of the 1524 01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:21,670 dreams and also about in the particular 1525 01:08:29,249 --> 01:08:25,440 dreams as to how the United States had 1526 01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:29,259 sort of had collapsed as a result of 1527 01:08:34,890 --> 01:08:33,040 this like a sneak attack and the she had 1528 01:08:37,919 --> 01:08:34,900 actually looked into this story to try 1529 01:08:41,099 --> 01:08:37,929 and figure it out for herself and she 1530 01:08:43,499 --> 01:08:41,109 this the image that she saw was of the 1531 01:08:46,859 --> 01:08:43,509 the Russians was having like a 1532 01:08:50,010 --> 01:08:46,869 preemptive strike but doing it with 1533 01:08:52,140 --> 01:08:50,020 what's basically called electromagnetic 1534 01:08:53,959 --> 01:08:52,150 pulse technology now electric 1535 01:08:57,450 --> 01:08:53,969 electromagnetic pulse technology 1536 01:08:59,459 --> 01:08:57,460 directed at an individual or 1537 01:09:01,890 --> 01:08:59,469 you know a military base whatever can 1538 01:09:04,860 --> 01:09:01,900 quite literally wipe out all the 1539 01:09:07,019 --> 01:09:04,870 technology you know it'll stop cars your 1540 01:09:08,820 --> 01:09:07,029 laptop will never work again you phone 1541 01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:08,830 everything that's what an 1542 01:09:14,010 --> 01:09:11,440 electromagnetic pulse does and she said 1543 01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:14,020 that that's the image she saw of like a 1544 01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:17,410 preemptive strike and this massive 1545 01:09:23,610 --> 01:09:19,600 electromagnetic pulse sort of just 1546 01:09:25,530 --> 01:09:23,620 basically wiping out you know just about 1547 01:09:27,420 --> 01:09:25,540 every electronic device in the United 1548 01:09:30,450 --> 01:09:27,430 States which and then leaving the u.s. 1549 01:09:33,059 --> 01:09:30,460 vulnerable and she said that that was at 1550 01:09:35,370 --> 01:09:33,069 that angle was the one that the guy kept 1551 01:09:37,890 --> 01:09:35,380 coming back to like four or five 1552 01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:37,900 occasions on this roughly a couple of 1553 01:09:42,900 --> 01:09:40,930 hours long interview me as I said there 1554 01:09:45,780 --> 01:09:42,910 was no there was nothing sinister no 1555 01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:45,790 stressful aspects no threats or warnings 1556 01:09:50,670 --> 01:09:48,250 he just basically said we prefer it if 1557 01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:50,680 you don't speak about it but we just 1558 01:09:55,170 --> 01:09:53,410 wanted to speak to you because there are 1559 01:09:57,630 --> 01:09:55,180 we've got stories like this from other 1560 01:10:00,600 --> 01:09:57,640 people and not just in Chicago and we're 1561 01:10:02,310 --> 01:10:00,610 concerned and we just like you know if 1562 01:10:04,050 --> 01:10:02,320 you could just give us your opinion in 1563 01:10:05,850 --> 01:10:04,060 your findings it would at least help us 1564 01:10:11,610 --> 01:10:05,860 to get a bigger picture so he's actually 1565 01:10:13,410 --> 01:10:11,620 quite a relaxed interview and when I met 1566 01:10:15,630 --> 01:10:13,420 her and spoke to her you know she did 1567 01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:15,640 not come across as some sort of crazy 1568 01:10:20,820 --> 01:10:17,650 fans assist or anything like that she 1569 01:10:24,270 --> 01:10:20,830 was just very lucid and a regular person 1570 01:10:26,459 --> 01:10:24,280 you know and that's just last year but 1571 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:26,469 but what's intriguing is that she 1572 01:10:32,550 --> 01:10:29,290 actually had sort of prophetic dreams of 1573 01:10:36,060 --> 01:10:32,560 apocalyptic events going back to a 1574 01:10:38,430 --> 01:10:36,070 teenage years and also abduction 1575 01:10:40,709 --> 01:10:38,440 experiences and you do find within the 1576 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:40,719 abduction phenomenon you do find cases 1577 01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:43,810 where people who've been abducted do see 1578 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:46,050 images of like the apocalypse and 1579 01:10:51,570 --> 01:10:49,090 mushroom cloud you know yeah the typical 1580 01:10:54,209 --> 01:10:51,580 things you do here that do that Nick we 1581 01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:54,219 have a caller on the line caller your 1582 01:11:00,150 --> 01:10:55,810 first name and where are you calling 1583 01:11:02,550 --> 01:11:00,160 from hey Martin Asad from Richmond 1584 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:02,560 Virginia hey there how are you thanks 1585 01:11:09,660 --> 01:11:05,530 for being patient yeah yeah no problem 1586 01:11:10,919 --> 01:11:09,670 yep yeah go ahead a two-part question 1587 01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:10,929 for a 1588 01:11:21,030 --> 01:11:16,290 Nik one hello hello from another Whitner 1589 01:11:23,790 --> 01:11:21,040 first part of my question is one of your 1590 01:11:28,649 --> 01:11:23,800 books Rhett you have contact with the 1591 01:11:39,020 --> 01:11:28,659 Collins elite and I read another book 1592 01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:42,300 you think they're still active in the 1593 01:11:47,459 --> 01:11:45,330 government behind the scene and 1594 01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,469 basically what your thoughts were behind 1595 01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:49,360 that my second part of the question is I 1596 01:11:54,990 --> 01:11:53,050 was born and I'm from hips which which 1597 01:11:57,810 --> 01:11:55,000 I'm sure you're familiar with and if you 1598 01:12:05,790 --> 01:11:57,820 know of any UFO cases and that part of 1599 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:05,800 the UK hips which yeah well I mean for 1600 01:12:09,570 --> 01:12:07,210 the first part yeah there's no doubt 1601 01:12:10,890 --> 01:12:09,580 that the Collins elite which for people 1602 01:12:13,050 --> 01:12:10,900 who don't know I wrote a book about 1603 01:12:15,630 --> 01:12:13,060 eight or nine years ago called final 1604 01:12:18,270 --> 01:12:15,640 events which was a study of a strange 1605 01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:18,280 little group in the government which was 1606 01:12:23,610 --> 01:12:20,770 like like a think-tank type group which 1607 01:12:25,970 --> 01:12:23,620 was looking at the the idea of the 1608 01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:25,980 theory that the UFO phenomenon was not 1609 01:12:31,110 --> 01:12:28,960 extraterrestrial but demonic liquid 1610 01:12:34,350 --> 01:12:31,120 literally demonic your demons horns 1611 01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:34,360 fiery pits that kind of thing and the 1612 01:12:39,209 --> 01:12:36,640 Collins elite was was a small group that 1613 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:39,219 was funded by the government because 1614 01:12:43,709 --> 01:12:41,290 there were people in government's deeply 1615 01:12:45,899 --> 01:12:43,719 religious people who also believe that 1616 01:12:47,790 --> 01:12:45,909 scenario that the UFO phenomenon was 1617 01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:47,800 sort of supernatural rather than 1618 01:12:52,740 --> 01:12:50,440 extraterrestrial and demonic and so they 1619 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:52,750 were sort of given a funding to look 1620 01:12:57,330 --> 01:12:55,210 into this angle and they still exist to 1621 01:13:00,990 --> 01:12:57,340 this day and when I wrote the book and 1622 01:13:03,209 --> 01:13:01,000 it was published in 2010 people said you 1623 01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:03,219 know there's no way that the governments 1624 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:06,400 would fund a little group to investigate 1625 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:09,370 the possibility that UFOs have demonic 1626 01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:11,170 rather than extraterrestrial origins but 1627 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:14,650 just you might know just in the last few 1628 01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:17,170 months more the story has come out 1629 01:13:23,090 --> 01:13:20,050 through for example Senator Harry Reid 1630 01:13:24,750 --> 01:13:23,100 and also George Knapp who have insider 1631 01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:24,760 contact and have 1632 01:13:31,410 --> 01:13:28,480 talks about the you know speaking with 1633 01:13:34,380 --> 01:13:31,420 people from these groups and and how 1634 01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:34,390 this group does exist and and there's no 1635 01:13:38,670 --> 01:13:36,489 doubt that the Collins elites which is 1636 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:38,680 the name that they like that the kind of 1637 01:13:42,620 --> 01:13:40,810 nickname they use there's no doubt 1638 01:13:45,540 --> 01:13:42,630 they're still around and still 1639 01:13:49,260 --> 01:13:45,550 investigating what they believe is the 1640 01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:49,270 answer to this phenomenon now the second 1641 01:13:55,979 --> 01:13:51,690 party question about Ipswich in England 1642 01:13:59,250 --> 01:13:55,989 in Ipswich isn't that far really from 1643 01:14:03,870 --> 01:13:59,260 the famous site of the 1980 Rendlesham 1644 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:03,880 forest UFO landing in December 1980 it's 1645 01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:07,690 no distance away really at all and but 1646 01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:09,130 in that part of England there are a lot 1647 01:14:12,540 --> 01:14:10,870 of cases not just the fact the 1648 01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:12,550 Rendlesham forest case but a lot of 1649 01:14:18,570 --> 01:14:15,570 other cases on the east side of England 1650 01:14:22,050 --> 01:14:18,580 not far away from Ipswich I need and in 1651 01:14:26,010 --> 01:14:22,060 Ipswich itself where people have had UFO 1652 01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:26,020 encounters landings sightings in the sky 1653 01:14:31,590 --> 01:14:29,650 and I won't say it sort of on a scale of 1654 01:14:34,050 --> 01:14:31,600 like Point Pleasant because it's not 1655 01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:34,060 with like with the Mothman but there are 1656 01:14:39,150 --> 01:14:36,400 a lot of cases from that particular part 1657 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:39,160 of England with with the Rendlesham 1658 01:14:46,670 --> 01:14:43,210 forest case of 1980 you know being that 1659 01:14:49,950 --> 01:14:46,680 the most well-known one I guess 1660 01:14:53,010 --> 01:14:49,960 hey yeah my father he was stationed at 1661 01:14:55,050 --> 01:14:53,020 Lincoln he after he left Vietnam that's 1662 01:14:57,570 --> 01:14:55,060 why I wasn't born there and I was he 1663 01:14:59,729 --> 01:14:57,580 said he thought strange like there while 1664 01:15:00,990 --> 01:14:59,739 he was there that was curious I would be 1665 01:15:04,350 --> 01:15:01,000 good little to remember but uh 1666 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:04,360 appreciate the time thanks again thanks 1667 01:15:08,430 --> 01:15:04,810 Martin 1668 01:15:16,020 --> 01:15:08,440 yeah thanks for the call I appreciate it 1669 01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:16,030 bye-bye hi okay so so Nick a question 1670 01:15:21,900 --> 01:15:20,050 came in on the in the chat room someone 1671 01:15:25,170 --> 01:15:21,910 wanted to know have you personally ever 1672 01:15:28,430 --> 01:15:25,180 had a sighting or seen anything seeing 1673 01:15:34,140 --> 01:15:31,560 never a UFO sighting but what actually 1674 01:15:37,380 --> 01:15:34,150 got me interested in all this was that 1675 01:15:38,669 --> 01:15:37,390 my dad was a radar mechanic in the 1676 01:15:40,649 --> 01:15:38,679 British Royal Air Force 1677 01:15:44,069 --> 01:15:40,659 which is the equivalent of the US air 1678 01:15:48,209 --> 01:15:44,079 force over here and he was involved in 1679 01:15:51,239 --> 01:15:48,219 his career in three UFO incidents where 1680 01:15:53,729 --> 01:15:51,249 which were radar based where the radar 1681 01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:53,739 operators were tracking these strange 1682 01:15:58,620 --> 01:15:56,050 objects actually approaching from the 1683 01:16:01,379 --> 01:15:58,630 east coast of England my dad was 1684 01:16:03,449 --> 01:16:01,389 stationed at a British Royal Air Force 1685 01:16:05,219 --> 01:16:03,459 Base called neatest said which funnily 1686 01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:05,229 enough is actually not that so far from 1687 01:16:10,709 --> 01:16:06,880 Ipswich through which the caller just 1688 01:16:11,819 --> 01:16:10,719 mentioned and and whatever these objects 1689 01:16:14,989 --> 01:16:11,829 were they were flying at tremendous 1690 01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:14,999 speeds but performing all sorts of weird 1691 01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:17,530 acrobatic movements like sort of you 1692 01:16:21,569 --> 01:16:19,510 know flying at 500 miles an hour and 1693 01:16:25,259 --> 01:16:21,579 then coming to a complete halt at like 1694 01:16:26,910 --> 01:16:25,269 30,000 feet you know which we aircraft 1695 01:16:29,549 --> 01:16:26,920 simply cannot do that you know they have 1696 01:16:31,169 --> 01:16:29,559 to turn slowly they cannot just come to 1697 01:16:34,020 --> 01:16:31,179 a complete halt in a second you know 1698 01:16:36,689 --> 01:16:34,030 just kill people with the g-forces sure 1699 01:16:39,209 --> 01:16:36,699 and so aircraft was sent up to intercept 1700 01:16:41,069 --> 01:16:39,219 these whatever they were some of the 1701 01:16:44,699 --> 01:16:41,079 pilots said they saw sort of bright 1702 01:16:46,979 --> 01:16:44,709 shining lights others saw typical like 1703 01:16:49,919 --> 01:16:46,989 flying saucer type craft and this went 1704 01:16:50,910 --> 01:16:49,929 on for three nights and the fourth night 1705 01:16:52,890 --> 01:16:50,920 nothing happened 1706 01:16:56,250 --> 01:16:52,900 and there was nothing else after that 1707 01:16:59,399 --> 01:16:56,260 and everybody like for example the the 1708 01:17:02,160 --> 01:16:59,409 ground personnel the military pilots the 1709 01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:02,170 radar operators and my dad's team which 1710 01:17:07,169 --> 01:17:05,050 were the radar mechanics were all 1711 01:17:08,370 --> 01:17:07,179 brought in and told you signed the 1712 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:08,380 British government's Official Secrets 1713 01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:10,570 Act which is basically a piece of 1714 01:17:15,179 --> 01:17:12,010 legislation that if you join the 1715 01:17:16,739 --> 01:17:15,189 government you agree not to tell any 1716 01:17:19,259 --> 01:17:16,749 sort of secrets that you might have 1717 01:17:22,979 --> 01:17:19,269 learned now my dad didn't say anything 1718 01:17:24,919 --> 01:17:22,989 till I was about 11 or 12 and when he 1719 01:17:27,569 --> 01:17:24,929 told me this story sort of really 1720 01:17:29,429 --> 01:17:27,579 fascinated me not not just because it 1721 01:17:31,649 --> 01:17:29,439 was my own dad but also because he was a 1722 01:17:34,169 --> 01:17:31,659 radar mechanic in the British military 1723 01:17:35,850 --> 01:17:34,179 and he knew the difference between this 1724 01:17:38,819 --> 01:17:35,860 or that you know on the road on the 1725 01:17:41,250 --> 01:17:38,829 radar screens and was able to confirm to 1726 01:17:42,839 --> 01:17:41,260 the team that no there were no problems 1727 01:17:45,569 --> 01:17:42,849 with the radar whatever they were 1728 01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:45,579 picking up really was there and I never 1729 01:17:51,270 --> 01:17:49,449 really forgot that event and you know as 1730 01:17:52,649 --> 01:17:51,280 time went on I started reading books by 1731 01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:52,659 people like John Kay 1732 01:17:58,229 --> 01:17:55,920 and Charles Berlitz and Brad Steiger and 1733 01:18:02,729 --> 01:17:58,239 look that's what kind of set me off 1734 01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:02,739 really with this subject right yeah Brad 1735 01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:06,400 Steiger passed away last year he what a 1736 01:18:10,830 --> 01:18:08,290 nice gentleman he was I could got a 1737 01:18:14,580 --> 01:18:10,840 chance to interview him actually but 1738 01:18:19,470 --> 01:18:14,590 earlier this year wasn't really that 1739 01:18:23,220 --> 01:18:19,480 long ago yeah yeah what a great guy he 1740 01:18:26,850 --> 01:18:23,230 was and what a writer rat when Brad died 1741 01:18:30,330 --> 01:18:26,860 Brad had done almost 200 books oh I'll 1742 01:18:30,780 --> 01:18:30,340 never reach that you never know yeah you 1743 01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:30,790 never know 1744 01:18:36,030 --> 01:18:33,449 well unless I find a way to you know to 1745 01:18:43,709 --> 01:18:36,040 find immortality I don't think I'm gonna 1746 01:18:46,379 --> 01:18:43,719 be 200 so one of the things I had made a 1747 01:18:49,979 --> 01:18:46,389 note here one of the things that I've 1748 01:18:50,790 --> 01:18:49,989 always questioned I guess I would say 1749 01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:50,800 question does 1750 01:18:57,450 --> 01:18:54,159 why on earth would someone be abducted 1751 01:19:00,209 --> 01:18:57,460 and then continually abducted I mean 1752 01:19:03,810 --> 01:19:00,219 that's such a puzzle it doesn't seem to 1753 01:19:05,700 --> 01:19:03,820 make it yeah I mean the only thing that 1754 01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:05,710 well the one thing more than anyone 1755 01:19:09,990 --> 01:19:07,810 should say that sort of at least goes 1756 01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:10,000 some way to answering that question is 1757 01:19:16,110 --> 01:19:13,360 that you often find that abductions go 1758 01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:16,120 in family generations right you know 1759 01:19:21,780 --> 01:19:19,600 like the grandmother has it's sort of 70 1760 01:19:24,419 --> 01:19:21,790 years ago and then her daughter has it 1761 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:24,429 50 years ago and then her daughter you 1762 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:26,770 know in the 70s has it and then today 1763 01:19:32,399 --> 01:19:29,770 you know there's a Cato's 16 and they're 1764 01:19:35,780 --> 01:19:32,409 starting to experience it so there does 1765 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:35,790 seem to be this generational thing where 1766 01:19:41,310 --> 01:19:39,130 families and individuals seem to be 1767 01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:41,320 followed and this is sort of given rise 1768 01:19:46,020 --> 01:19:43,840 to the idea of some sort of you know 1769 01:19:48,780 --> 01:19:46,030 like it like a genetic experimentation 1770 01:19:51,570 --> 01:19:48,790 or a program to you know take certain 1771 01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:51,580 families or certain people or to 1772 01:19:58,620 --> 01:19:54,370 experiment on people in you know the 1773 01:20:03,510 --> 01:19:58,630 same families and so on that's really 1774 01:20:05,310 --> 01:20:03,520 the only answer I can think of and any 1775 01:20:06,540 --> 01:20:05,320 tease you know and it is sort of 1776 01:20:08,010 --> 01:20:06,550 supported by the Whitney 1777 01:20:10,229 --> 01:20:08,020 testimony I mean there are a lot of 1778 01:20:14,459 --> 01:20:10,239 cases in fact I would say the majority 1779 01:20:17,250 --> 01:20:14,469 of cases when somebody in the family has 1780 01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:17,260 had a weird experience like this in most 1781 01:20:22,049 --> 01:20:19,570 cases somebody else in the family has 1782 01:20:24,030 --> 01:20:22,059 had a similar experience as well that 1783 01:20:27,149 --> 01:20:24,040 maybe didn't talk about it or perhaps 1784 01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:27,159 didn't even recognize the importance of 1785 01:20:32,459 --> 01:20:29,290 it just thought it was you know bad by 1786 01:20:34,500 --> 01:20:32,469 dream or whatever but that there's no 1787 01:20:37,919 --> 01:20:34,510 doubt in my mind at least that there's 1788 01:20:39,959 --> 01:20:37,929 some sort of generational link going on 1789 01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:39,969 with the abduction sure seems like that 1790 01:20:46,770 --> 01:20:44,800 now I remember Kathy Martin was I was 1791 01:20:49,859 --> 01:20:46,780 speaking with her actually she was on my 1792 01:20:52,229 --> 01:20:49,869 show at the time she revealed this that 1793 01:20:56,609 --> 01:20:52,239 was when I was in Phoenix last February 1794 01:21:00,260 --> 01:20:56,619 she said that I believe it was not only 1795 01:21:04,260 --> 01:21:00,270 her on Betty Betty hill but also her 1796 01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:04,270 grandmother that was saying that she had 1797 01:21:10,350 --> 01:21:08,530 an abduction situation though so I mean 1798 01:21:11,370 --> 01:21:10,360 I was kind of shocked to hear that I had 1799 01:21:15,660 --> 01:21:11,380 never heard it before 1800 01:21:17,790 --> 01:21:15,670 so you know but I mean that that's sort 1801 01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:17,800 of a classic example of you know what 1802 01:21:22,979 --> 01:21:19,570 we're talking about that it isn't just 1803 01:21:23,549 --> 01:21:22,989 one individual like on a random lonely 1804 01:21:27,780 --> 01:21:23,559 night 1805 01:21:30,089 --> 01:21:27,790 it's it's more like a planned situation 1806 01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:30,099 of targeting not just individuals but 1807 01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:32,800 entire families you know across the 1808 01:21:36,870 --> 01:21:35,440 world and if that it really is the case 1809 01:21:39,959 --> 01:21:36,880 you know it demonstrates something 1810 01:21:42,569 --> 01:21:39,969 that's sort of really sophisticated but 1811 01:21:44,700 --> 01:21:42,579 also suggests that's you know the sort 1812 01:21:47,129 --> 01:21:44,710 of constant surveillance to some degree 1813 01:21:49,979 --> 01:21:47,139 of of these people regardless of however 1814 01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:49,989 many times they might move house even 1815 01:21:55,859 --> 01:21:53,170 you know if it's a here's kind of a 1816 01:21:59,879 --> 01:21:55,869 strange question perhaps to you but if 1817 01:22:02,160 --> 01:21:59,889 it if it wasn't a lian's that are doing 1818 01:22:06,060 --> 01:22:02,170 this what are some of the other answers 1819 01:22:09,149 --> 01:22:06,070 it could be well yeah this gets to a 1820 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:09,159 really controversial area because you 1821 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:13,290 have what in my mind are 100% legitimate 1822 01:22:18,780 --> 01:22:16,690 alien abduction experiences but there 1823 01:22:19,170 --> 01:22:18,790 are some cases where the witnesses have 1824 01:22:22,410 --> 01:22:19,180 said 1825 01:22:24,630 --> 01:22:22,420 that they were abducted after being 1826 01:22:26,490 --> 01:22:24,640 abducted by you know the so-called 1827 01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:26,500 Grey's these little figures with the big 1828 01:22:32,190 --> 01:22:29,040 black eyes and a big head after being 1829 01:22:35,550 --> 01:22:32,200 abducted by them they've been been 1830 01:22:38,970 --> 01:22:35,560 abducted by military personnel who sort 1831 01:22:41,550 --> 01:22:38,980 of unlike the case in Chicago with the 1832 01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:41,560 Mothman story in these stories which are 1833 01:22:46,290 --> 01:22:43,570 known as military abductions or male abs 1834 01:22:48,630 --> 01:22:46,300 the the witness is typically described 1835 01:22:51,480 --> 01:22:48,640 these events as very traumatic and 1836 01:22:53,100 --> 01:22:51,490 rather than like in Chicago where the 1837 01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:53,110 guy was just asking questions and would 1838 01:22:58,130 --> 01:22:55,570 you mind helping us in the middle of 1839 01:23:00,630 --> 01:22:58,140 experiences it's almost like an 1840 01:23:02,100 --> 01:23:00,640 intimidating interrogation 1841 01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:02,110 you know you'll tell us what we know 1842 01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:03,850 because this is a national security 1843 01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:08,010 issue and it's you're you know you're 1844 01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:11,290 you're basically you have to help us or 1845 01:23:16,970 --> 01:23:13,330 else you know it's very traumatic and 1846 01:23:19,470 --> 01:23:16,980 sort of in-your-face kind of situations 1847 01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:19,480 but there are a lot of cases like this 1848 01:23:28,170 --> 01:23:23,190 the so-called me labs where people are 1849 01:23:30,660 --> 01:23:28,180 really original abduction and this 1850 01:23:33,060 --> 01:23:30,670 particular group they do not come across 1851 01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:33,070 as you know friendly 1852 01:23:41,010 --> 01:23:38,560 it's just intimidation you know just a 1853 01:23:42,990 --> 01:23:41,020 very fraught situation for the for the 1854 01:23:46,650 --> 01:23:43,000 witness now so that's the one angle 1855 01:23:49,650 --> 01:23:46,660 there's another one is that one things I 1856 01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:49,660 talked about which also kind of confuses 1857 01:23:55,770 --> 01:23:52,930 things even more there are some examples 1858 01:23:58,370 --> 01:23:55,780 where government agencies may have been 1859 01:24:02,190 --> 01:23:58,380 testing out new mind control 1860 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:02,200 technologies far beyond the 1950s things 1861 01:24:09,060 --> 01:24:05,770 like the CIA's MKULTRA program but where 1862 01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:09,070 for example they were testing out 1863 01:24:15,480 --> 01:24:12,490 mind-altering technologies and using it 1864 01:24:17,940 --> 01:24:15,490 on people and in some cases used this 1865 01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:17,950 sort of alien abductee motif in other 1866 01:24:22,290 --> 01:24:20,290 words saying that well if we can make 1867 01:24:24,690 --> 01:24:22,300 people think they're seen aliens we can 1868 01:24:26,910 --> 01:24:24,700 make them believe they seen anything you 1869 01:24:29,490 --> 01:24:26,920 know and testing them out on citizens 1870 01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:29,500 before turning in the wrong you know the 1871 01:24:34,750 --> 01:24:32,239 Russians or the Chinese or whoever 1872 01:24:37,930 --> 01:24:34,760 so you know there's a lot of weird stuff 1873 01:24:41,709 --> 01:24:37,940 you've got the original what I believe 1874 01:24:44,709 --> 01:24:41,719 are genuine abductions then you've got 1875 01:24:46,330 --> 01:24:44,719 the military abductions of the abductees 1876 01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:46,340 to try and figure out what's going on 1877 01:24:52,450 --> 01:24:49,090 and then you have what are possibly 1878 01:24:54,930 --> 01:24:52,460 mind-control experiments using the UFO 1879 01:24:58,900 --> 01:24:54,940 subject as a means to try and determine 1880 01:25:02,110 --> 01:24:58,910 how the human mind can be altered if you 1881 01:25:05,020 --> 01:25:02,120 like to make us see just about anything 1882 01:25:07,540 --> 01:25:05,030 that anybody wanted you to see now other 1883 01:25:10,990 --> 01:25:07,550 as far as you know are there any cases 1884 01:25:14,290 --> 01:25:11,000 that are documented that you found files 1885 01:25:17,410 --> 01:25:14,300 on where anyone talks about there are 1886 01:25:19,450 --> 01:25:17,420 other parts other family members being 1887 01:25:21,250 --> 01:25:19,460 abducted or things that you hear about 1888 01:25:24,729 --> 01:25:21,260 like implants or anything like that 1889 01:25:27,190 --> 01:25:24,739 oh yeah well a perfect example would be 1890 01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:27,200 the story of Betty and Reyes and who's 1891 01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:29,690 been the subject of a number of really 1892 01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:34,010 good books written by Ray Fowler and the 1893 01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:37,760 Betty Andreasen story is focused on sort 1894 01:25:43,390 --> 01:25:41,600 of generational abductions over the 1895 01:25:45,940 --> 01:25:43,400 course of sort of half a century or 1896 01:25:49,150 --> 01:25:45,950 there abouts but what's interesting is 1897 01:25:51,130 --> 01:25:49,160 that Betty and her husband Bob described 1898 01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:51,140 a lot of weird stuff like black 1899 01:25:55,030 --> 01:25:53,690 helicopters flying over their homes to 1900 01:25:58,270 --> 01:25:55,040 the extent that they actually put a 1901 01:26:00,820 --> 01:25:58,280 complaint in with the military excuse me 1902 01:26:02,620 --> 01:26:00,830 to try and figure out who was doing it 1903 01:26:04,540 --> 01:26:02,630 who was flying these helicopters and 1904 01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:04,550 flying of them flying them it's sort of 1905 01:26:12,370 --> 01:26:10,010 really low intimidating levels and so 1906 01:26:15,220 --> 01:26:12,380 you know in the one sense you have the 1907 01:26:19,390 --> 01:26:15,230 surveillance going across decades within 1908 01:26:22,150 --> 01:26:19,400 this one family but you've also got the 1909 01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:22,160 children and you know the relations in 1910 01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:24,650 the Andreasen family also having 1911 01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:28,730 experiences as well so now we don't have 1912 01:26:36,430 --> 01:26:33,410 the files on any files so far at least 1913 01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:36,440 on Betty and Bob but what we do know and 1914 01:26:41,170 --> 01:26:39,530 which is documented is that they did put 1915 01:26:43,870 --> 01:26:41,180 complaints in about these black 1916 01:26:45,530 --> 01:26:43,880 helicopters sort of constantly flying 1917 01:26:49,010 --> 01:26:45,540 over their home and just 1918 01:26:51,950 --> 01:26:49,020 pestering them and you know so in that 1919 01:26:55,790 --> 01:26:51,960 sense we've got a paper trail damn its 1920 01:26:57,860 --> 01:26:55,800 provoked not by the government but by US 1921 01:27:00,740 --> 01:26:57,870 citizens who are just sick and tired of 1922 01:27:03,590 --> 01:27:00,750 essentially being surveyed in sort of 1923 01:27:06,380 --> 01:27:03,600 almost like a taunting fashion wow that 1924 01:27:09,620 --> 01:27:06,390 is that is something if someone keeps up 1925 01:27:14,150 --> 01:27:09,630 posting in the making a connection to 1926 01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:14,160 David Pilates missing for one one if I 1927 01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:17,760 know that he when he talks about I got 1928 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:19,530 to meet him a few months ago when he 1929 01:27:26,110 --> 01:27:23,850 gets to talking about people missing he 1930 01:27:28,460 --> 01:27:26,120 doesn't want to take any type of a 1931 01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:28,470 standard what he thinks a re kind of 1932 01:27:34,130 --> 01:27:30,570 leaves it up to the reader or the person 1933 01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:34,140 listening to his lecture but do you 1934 01:27:38,630 --> 01:27:36,960 think that there or do you have you ever 1935 01:27:40,910 --> 01:27:38,640 considered that there may be any 1936 01:27:44,660 --> 01:27:40,920 connection with all the people that just 1937 01:27:49,850 --> 01:27:44,670 end up becoming missing like you know a 1938 01:27:51,230 --> 01:27:49,860 final abduction well yeah I mean that's 1939 01:27:53,390 --> 01:27:51,240 you know that's an interesting angle 1940 01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:53,400 because you're right Davis books are 1941 01:27:59,710 --> 01:27:56,370 really good but you know he is someone 1942 01:28:04,010 --> 01:27:59,720 who presents what he knows for sure and 1943 01:28:05,810 --> 01:28:04,020 prefers not to speculate you know with 1944 01:28:08,030 --> 01:28:05,820 his background in law enforcement that's 1945 01:28:09,830 --> 01:28:08,040 probably had a big impact on it 1946 01:28:12,770 --> 01:28:09,840 and that's actually a good thing you 1947 01:28:15,140 --> 01:28:12,780 know if you know I mean sometimes I 1948 01:28:17,060 --> 01:28:15,150 think we are all guilty of sort of 1949 01:28:19,340 --> 01:28:17,070 speculating a bit too much in certain 1950 01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:19,350 cases and you know putting two and two 1951 01:28:23,570 --> 01:28:21,330 together and making 10 instead of four 1952 01:28:27,230 --> 01:28:23,580 but does sometimes happen but what I 1953 01:28:30,860 --> 01:28:27,240 would say is that you know David as my 1954 01:28:34,130 --> 01:28:30,870 regardless of what the cause is David 1955 01:28:36,770 --> 01:28:34,140 has made a really good case but there 1956 01:28:39,140 --> 01:28:36,780 are certain incidents particularly 1957 01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:39,150 around the United States and a lot of 1958 01:28:43,100 --> 01:28:40,650 them in the national forests where 1959 01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:43,110 people have vanished under extremely 1960 01:28:49,370 --> 01:28:46,410 weird circumstances which even baffled 1961 01:28:53,570 --> 01:28:49,380 the law enforcement people that looked 1962 01:28:55,100 --> 01:28:53,580 into these cases now you know in the one 1963 01:28:57,440 --> 01:28:55,110 thing we know for sure about the 1964 01:28:58,820 --> 01:28:57,450 abduction alien abductions is that all 1965 01:28:59,180 --> 01:28:58,830 the reason we know about the case is 1966 01:29:01,100 --> 01:28:59,190 because 1967 01:29:03,890 --> 01:29:01,110 people are brought back you know they 1968 01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:03,900 tell their stories but of course David 1969 01:29:08,150 --> 01:29:05,730 is talking about people who are 1970 01:29:11,630 --> 01:29:08,160 whatever's happening to these people 1971 01:29:14,300 --> 01:29:11,640 they're not coming back and so you know 1972 01:29:16,820 --> 01:29:14,310 this sort of raises another angle well 1973 01:29:19,100 --> 01:29:16,830 are there abductions where alien 1974 01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:19,110 abductions where the people have never 1975 01:29:24,860 --> 01:29:22,010 been brought back and if you look at the 1976 01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:24,870 there's a blacklist section on the FBI's 1977 01:29:29,810 --> 01:29:27,570 website I forget where it isn't if you 1978 01:29:32,990 --> 01:29:29,820 go to it you'll tell you how many people 1979 01:29:36,890 --> 01:29:33,000 vanished and we're not found in the 1980 01:29:39,910 --> 01:29:36,900 previous years actually are are missing 1981 01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:39,920 you know in the u.s. right now period 1982 01:29:45,229 --> 01:29:43,530 and it's gigantic numbers now you know 1983 01:29:47,930 --> 01:29:45,239 some of them may be people who wanted to 1984 01:29:49,970 --> 01:29:47,940 start a new life you know right somebody 1985 01:29:52,850 --> 01:29:49,980 runs away with somebody else's wife or 1986 01:29:55,189 --> 01:29:52,860 whatever they just want to make a new 1987 01:29:57,650 --> 01:29:55,199 start or they were murdered and buried 1988 01:30:00,920 --> 01:29:57,660 and you know by some crazy serial killer 1989 01:30:04,910 --> 01:30:00,930 and obviously most of the cases I'm sure 1990 01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:04,920 I'm down to earth explanations but in 1991 01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:07,199 saying that as I said David hasn't made 1992 01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:09,690 a really good case that some of these 1993 01:30:17,620 --> 01:30:14,250 cases seems so weird you know that 1994 01:30:22,250 --> 01:30:17,630 people just vanished you know and almost 1995 01:30:25,220 --> 01:30:22,260 inexplicable ways absolutely and and you 1996 01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:25,230 know for instance they'll be just behind 1997 01:30:31,970 --> 01:30:28,290 someone or just ahead of them and yeah 1998 01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:31,980 then just gone or or then you know the 1999 01:30:37,820 --> 01:30:34,770 strange places they'll find a body of 2000 01:30:39,410 --> 01:30:37,830 someone you know I mean that just 2001 01:30:42,770 --> 01:30:39,420 absolutely makes no sense that they've 2002 01:30:45,590 --> 01:30:42,780 been by the trail 10 times and you know 2003 01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:45,600 had dogs there and everything and then 2004 01:30:50,380 --> 01:30:47,280 all of a sudden the persons there you 2005 01:30:52,729 --> 01:30:50,390 know really strange things I think 2006 01:30:54,950 --> 01:30:52,739 people haven't read them I mean I would 2007 01:30:56,750 --> 01:30:54,960 recommend Davies books these are missing 2008 01:30:59,270 --> 01:30:56,760 four one one books which is like a 2009 01:31:02,150 --> 01:30:59,280 series of them yeah because nobody else 2010 01:31:04,850 --> 01:31:02,160 he's actually really doing this kind of 2011 01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:04,860 research of you know of what's happening 2012 01:31:09,500 --> 01:31:06,930 to the thousands of people who vanish 2013 01:31:12,050 --> 01:31:09,510 every year and and and literally are not 2014 01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:12,060 saying again you know use Yosemite is a 2015 01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:13,010 big place for the 2016 01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:15,360 you're suddenly yeah that's one of the 2017 01:31:20,480 --> 01:31:17,610 interesting things you know I although 2018 01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:20,490 David doesn't you know say anything it's 2019 01:31:24,980 --> 01:31:22,290 alien abductees you know and I wouldn't 2020 01:31:27,860 --> 01:31:24,990 expect him to because of his approach he 2021 01:31:30,950 --> 01:31:27,870 takes but in the same way that I 2022 01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:30,960 mentioned that it seemed like with the 2023 01:31:37,010 --> 01:31:34,890 alien abductees you know the abductors 2024 01:31:38,930 --> 01:31:37,020 the greys whatever you want to call them 2025 01:31:40,670 --> 01:31:38,940 it seems they're limited evening their 2026 01:31:43,820 --> 01:31:40,680 technologies which is why they take 2027 01:31:46,220 --> 01:31:43,830 people late at night in isolated areas 2028 01:31:49,220 --> 01:31:46,230 well that limited ability on their part 2029 01:31:51,980 --> 01:31:49,230 might explain why they talk my target 2030 01:31:54,470 --> 01:31:51,990 paper in large forests and woods because 2031 01:31:58,430 --> 01:31:54,480 it gives them a large degree of 2032 01:32:00,560 --> 01:31:58,440 camouflage which may again suggest kind 2033 01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:00,570 of like a weak points you know in their 2034 01:32:07,310 --> 01:32:03,810 technology right I was up I was talking 2035 01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:07,320 to him at this conference and and I said 2036 01:32:11,450 --> 01:32:09,930 well do you you know he says he hikes 2037 01:32:14,420 --> 01:32:11,460 and I said well what do you what do you 2038 01:32:18,050 --> 01:32:14,430 do you know what do you bring with he 2039 01:32:20,480 --> 01:32:18,060 brings up brings a firearm he brings a 2040 01:32:24,890 --> 01:32:20,490 satellite radio satellite you know 2041 01:32:27,410 --> 01:32:24,900 telephone he brings a GPS you know 2042 01:32:30,020 --> 01:32:27,420 receiver everything in the world he 2043 01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:30,030 really really is after all the research 2044 01:32:35,060 --> 01:32:32,210 he's done he's he's kind of scared of 2045 01:32:37,910 --> 01:32:35,070 something happening to them which would 2046 01:32:39,860 --> 01:32:37,920 certainly be irony where yeah oh yeah I 2047 01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:39,870 mean I mean a good example of all this a 2048 01:32:46,780 --> 01:32:43,920 good friend of mine Shelley excuse me 2049 01:32:49,820 --> 01:32:46,790 Shelley Covington Montana Shelley 2050 01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:49,830 there's a lot of research into the 2051 01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:53,250 Bigfoot phenomenon now every summer or 2052 01:32:58,130 --> 01:32:55,770 there abouts about three months she goes 2053 01:33:00,230 --> 01:32:58,140 out into the Pacific Northwest woods 2054 01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:00,240 that I'm talking about from like May 2055 01:33:05,570 --> 01:33:02,850 till like the end of August when you 2056 01:33:09,590 --> 01:33:05,580 know she takes with her you know devices 2057 01:33:12,010 --> 01:33:09,600 so she can you know turn sort of stream 2058 01:33:14,930 --> 01:33:12,020 water into clear water and pure water 2059 01:33:18,230 --> 01:33:14,940 she takes her own dried food you know 2060 01:33:20,540 --> 01:33:18,240 and and she'd quite literally live sort 2061 01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:20,550 of thirty to forty miles inside the 2062 01:33:26,180 --> 01:33:23,250 Pacific North Woods for like three to 2063 01:33:29,330 --> 01:33:26,190 four months and and she's had 2064 01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:29,340 you know interesting stuff emulation to 2065 01:33:34,100 --> 01:33:31,770 Bigfoot but I guess the one thing that 2066 01:33:36,650 --> 01:33:34,110 really hit me when she told me you know 2067 01:33:40,250 --> 01:33:36,660 about when she was first doing this 2068 01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:40,260 just the sheer issue of being sort of 40 2069 01:33:46,370 --> 01:33:42,810 miles away from civilization in the 2070 01:33:48,260 --> 01:33:46,380 middle of nowhere and realizing it's you 2071 01:33:51,290 --> 01:33:48,270 and just nature you know what I mean 2072 01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:51,300 most people never find themselves in 2073 01:33:55,820 --> 01:33:53,370 that kind of situation even if you go 2074 01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:55,830 into the Pacific Northwest woods for a 2075 01:33:59,450 --> 01:33:57,690 picnic on a Sunday afternoon with your 2076 01:34:01,310 --> 01:33:59,460 family people probably go in about a 2077 01:34:03,709 --> 01:34:01,320 half a mile into the area you know where 2078 01:34:07,220 --> 01:34:03,719 there's like little Park area and you 2079 01:34:09,050 --> 01:34:07,230 know seats and tables and whatever and 2080 01:34:10,430 --> 01:34:09,060 you can just hang out but most people 2081 01:34:13,729 --> 01:34:10,440 don't go through the forty mile health 2082 01:34:15,830 --> 01:34:13,739 into those woods as Shelly does and so 2083 01:34:19,870 --> 01:34:15,840 in that sense you know we're talking 2084 01:34:23,330 --> 01:34:19,880 about a sudden realization that you're 2085 01:34:26,060 --> 01:34:23,340 100% vulnerable and there's no one else 2086 01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:26,070 around and anything could happen to you 2087 01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:28,170 you know no no it's like you know the 2088 01:34:31,970 --> 01:34:29,489 mountain man I don't know if you've ever 2089 01:34:34,729 --> 01:34:31,980 heard about them but back in the 18th 2090 01:34:37,790 --> 01:34:34,739 century the fur trade they would just go 2091 01:34:39,500 --> 01:34:37,800 out for like years in the woods and I 2092 01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:39,510 don't know how anyone did that always 2093 01:34:43,729 --> 01:34:41,250 make always makes me wonder what they 2094 01:34:47,270 --> 01:34:43,739 saw or if they had any tales of strange 2095 01:34:51,229 --> 01:34:47,280 beings or you know UFOs or you know all 2096 01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:51,239 that kind of like a fictional example 2097 01:34:55,790 --> 01:34:53,040 nothing to do with UFOs or Bigfoot 2098 01:34:58,310 --> 01:34:55,800 anything like that but I mean you look 2099 01:35:01,660 --> 01:34:58,320 at a movie like deliverance you know 2100 01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:01,670 you've got you know a bunch of friends 2101 01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:05,010 from just regular civilization and then 2102 01:35:09,590 --> 01:35:07,770 they head out you know for half a day or 2103 01:35:13,010 --> 01:35:09,600 two days and they end up in the woods 2104 01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:13,020 and then you know all it all turns bad 2105 01:35:19,370 --> 01:35:16,800 you know and and that's under granted 2106 01:35:21,530 --> 01:35:19,380 it's just a movie but I mean you know 2107 01:35:25,430 --> 01:35:21,540 you can easily see how when you get out 2108 01:35:28,490 --> 01:35:25,440 of regular civilization you can be 2109 01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:28,500 really really vulnerable and no one 2110 01:35:32,890 --> 01:35:30,090 would even know that you were missing 2111 01:35:36,770 --> 01:35:32,900 you know that's right yeah scary scary 2112 01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:36,780 now we do have the phone line open if 2113 01:35:39,890 --> 01:35:38,370 anyone wants to call that numbers up on 2114 01:35:41,930 --> 01:35:39,900 the screen and 2115 01:35:45,830 --> 01:35:41,940 YouTube you're welcome to give our 2116 01:35:49,459 --> 01:35:45,840 guests a call and so you were talking 2117 01:35:53,330 --> 01:35:49,469 about earlier that I forget the name of 2118 01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:53,340 the person that had visions of basically 2119 01:35:58,580 --> 01:35:55,920 that things were going to be destroyed 2120 01:36:01,520 --> 01:35:58,590 by basically wiping out the electric 2121 01:36:03,470 --> 01:36:01,530 grid you know and that is that is one 2122 01:36:07,100 --> 01:36:03,480 thing I got to say that we are just 2123 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:07,110 absolutely vulnerable and you know when 2124 01:36:10,820 --> 01:36:08,610 it comes to all that and you know I've 2125 01:36:12,890 --> 01:36:10,830 the research out there says that ninety 2126 01:36:14,810 --> 01:36:12,900 some odd percent of Americans would 2127 01:36:16,580 --> 01:36:14,820 perish in three years if the electric 2128 01:36:20,959 --> 01:36:16,590 grid went down and yet we don't have it 2129 01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:20,969 protected and no you're right and that 2130 01:36:25,729 --> 01:36:24,000 demonstrates how vulnerable we all are I 2131 01:36:29,109 --> 01:36:25,739 mean the woman you're talking about is 2132 01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:29,119 the one I mentioned Jane who had this 2133 01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:33,090 series of sort of distressing dreams and 2134 01:36:38,270 --> 01:36:36,570 nightmares of you know Chicago being 2135 01:36:40,609 --> 01:36:38,280 destroyed and other cities being 2136 01:36:42,290 --> 01:36:40,619 destroyed and as I said I mean when I 2137 01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:42,300 wrote about this I got dozens of 2138 01:36:47,870 --> 01:36:44,610 responses from people who'd had similar 2139 01:36:50,089 --> 01:36:47,880 dreams some about Chicago another one 2140 01:36:52,700 --> 01:36:50,099 talked about an event near Lubbock and 2141 01:36:55,850 --> 01:36:52,710 another one near the Florida Keys and he 2142 01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:55,860 was just these gigantic explosions and 2143 01:36:59,450 --> 01:36:57,810 you know sort of fire storms that were 2144 01:37:02,320 --> 01:36:59,460 like three four hundred feet high 2145 01:37:05,180 --> 01:37:02,330 you know just racing across the 2146 01:37:08,180 --> 01:37:05,190 landscape and a lot of people don't 2147 01:37:10,580 --> 01:37:08,190 realize the sheer extent of what a 2148 01:37:12,859 --> 01:37:10,590 nuclear war would be like you know you 2149 01:37:15,169 --> 01:37:12,869 even hear people today saying you could 2150 01:37:17,750 --> 01:37:15,179 win a nuclear war you cannot win a 2151 01:37:20,570 --> 01:37:17,760 nuclear war neither us know the Russians 2152 01:37:22,850 --> 01:37:20,580 can launch a snake attack in terms of 2153 01:37:26,089 --> 01:37:22,860 just launching the missiles because both 2154 01:37:28,430 --> 01:37:26,099 sides have spy satellites spying on all 2155 01:37:31,100 --> 01:37:28,440 the missile silos they only have to say 2156 01:37:33,229 --> 01:37:31,110 that my cell silo open and the hate 2157 01:37:36,290 --> 01:37:33,239 signature tells them that they're about 2158 01:37:39,410 --> 01:37:36,300 to launch so no one can win but I mean 2159 01:37:42,109 --> 01:37:39,420 with atomic the atomic weapons we have 2160 01:37:45,500 --> 01:37:42,119 today they're so powerful that I mean 2161 01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:45,510 the blast the wind blast from the 2162 01:37:49,879 --> 01:37:48,449 average nuclear missile today is like 2163 01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:49,889 1,200 miles an hour 2164 01:37:53,780 --> 01:37:52,530 you know we watch like on CNN or 2165 01:37:58,880 --> 01:37:53,790 whatever distress in show 2166 01:38:01,760 --> 01:37:58,890 you know a town you just wrecked and 2167 01:38:04,850 --> 01:38:01,770 this and the wind was like 150 miles an 2168 01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:04,860 hour you know you think you you change 2169 01:38:12,110 --> 01:38:07,920 that to an atomic blast and you've got 2170 01:38:12,740 --> 01:38:12,120 wind speeds of 1,200 miles an hour 1,200 2171 01:38:14,450 --> 01:38:12,750 miles an hour 2172 01:38:17,300 --> 01:38:14,460 nothing always you know and just a blast 2173 01:38:19,190 --> 01:38:17,310 yeah just wiping out entire cities just 2174 01:38:22,250 --> 01:38:19,200 turning everything to dust for like 20 2175 01:38:23,810 --> 01:38:22,260 miles and radiation and that's from one 2176 01:38:27,620 --> 01:38:23,820 bomb never mind 2177 01:38:30,110 --> 01:38:27,630 the additional 150 or 200 that are going 2178 01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:30,120 to hit the country as well no one would 2179 01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:32,850 win but there is this angle where in a 2180 01:38:37,820 --> 01:38:35,850 worst-case scenario we get taken out 2181 01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:37,830 because as you said you have this 2182 01:38:44,210 --> 01:38:40,650 electromagnetic pulse issue which will 2183 01:38:47,090 --> 01:38:44,220 wipe out just about everything on the 2184 01:38:48,650 --> 01:38:47,100 grid you know not just so many Internet 2185 01:38:50,990 --> 01:38:48,660 going out for a few days and whatever 2186 01:38:53,440 --> 01:38:51,000 you can say you know check Facebook 2187 01:38:58,130 --> 01:38:53,450 we're talking about just the complete 2188 01:39:00,380 --> 01:38:58,140 collapse of you know the grid 2189 01:39:04,580 --> 01:39:00,390 everything's gone and it will not come 2190 01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:04,590 back and what we lose is people have no 2191 01:39:10,010 --> 01:39:07,290 idea but you know the average food that 2192 01:39:13,190 --> 01:39:10,020 you get in restaurant as has traveled 2193 01:39:15,590 --> 01:39:13,200 1400 miles you know everything would be 2194 01:39:20,510 --> 01:39:15,600 down and you know I know this is way off 2195 01:39:22,910 --> 01:39:20,520 the topic of your book the show because 2196 01:39:27,290 --> 01:39:22,920 the reason why I say these and really is 2197 01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:27,300 because a lot of abductees have seen in 2198 01:39:31,370 --> 01:39:29,010 the in the following the abduction 2199 01:39:34,550 --> 01:39:31,380 events they've experienced very 2200 01:39:38,510 --> 01:39:34,560 traumatic dreams nightmares and visions 2201 01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:38,520 of atomic warfare you know and just 2202 01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:43,290 worldwide destruction and you know the 2203 01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:46,170 big question is why are abductees being 2204 01:39:51,170 --> 01:39:49,050 given these images why are those images 2205 01:39:54,110 --> 01:39:51,180 being implanted in their minds is it 2206 01:39:56,630 --> 01:39:54,120 a means to sort of have these people 2207 01:39:59,270 --> 01:39:56,640 warned us of what could be the case of 2208 01:40:01,430 --> 01:39:59,280 you know the future but then again you 2209 01:40:03,770 --> 01:40:01,440 have to wonder why aren't they going 2210 01:40:06,440 --> 01:40:03,780 direct to the presidents you know or a 2211 01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:06,450 king Equator prime minister why are they 2212 01:40:09,709 --> 01:40:07,650 just going to 2213 01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:09,719 random members of the general public who 2214 01:40:14,450 --> 01:40:12,570 no disrespect but they're you know 2215 01:40:16,700 --> 01:40:14,460 they're not like a president who can get 2216 01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:16,710 the word out to everybody so it is 2217 01:40:23,540 --> 01:40:20,850 admittedly you know baffling as to why 2218 01:40:25,550 --> 01:40:23,550 they get these images but they do I mean 2219 01:40:29,120 --> 01:40:25,560 even Whitley Strieber had one he said he 2220 01:40:32,060 --> 01:40:29,130 saw in a an image of Washington DC 2221 01:40:34,910 --> 01:40:32,070 destroyed and in the in the dream this 2222 01:40:38,020 --> 01:40:34,920 was in I think like 2040 or something 2223 01:40:41,959 --> 01:40:38,030 like that and nobody knew who did it and 2224 01:40:46,090 --> 01:40:41,969 and in his dream as a result the US was 2225 01:40:50,209 --> 01:40:46,100 put into like a state of martial law and 2226 01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:50,219 you know just like a no-go totalitarian 2227 01:40:57,020 --> 01:40:54,090 kind kind of state which again is sort 2228 01:40:59,360 --> 01:40:57,030 of very disturbing scenario but but so 2229 01:41:02,689 --> 01:40:59,370 many people who've been abducted do talk 2230 01:41:04,729 --> 01:41:02,699 about that you know images of 2231 01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:04,739 destruction and the end of the world and 2232 01:41:09,380 --> 01:41:07,050 so on even we have a caller on the line 2233 01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:09,390 I'll get to just one second here even 2234 01:41:13,610 --> 01:41:11,370 like the aerial school phenomena those 2235 01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:13,620 kids they're they a lot of those kids 2236 01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:16,800 had visions of you know destruction or 2237 01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:19,130 even just plain take care of the planet 2238 01:41:24,110 --> 01:41:22,530 the planets being destroyed caller 2239 01:41:28,610 --> 01:41:24,120 were you calling from in your first name 2240 01:41:33,669 --> 01:41:28,620 please caller you still there hello 2241 01:41:38,060 --> 01:41:35,180 hey Mike 2242 01:41:41,030 --> 01:41:38,070 welcome to the show great I'm a big fan 2243 01:41:44,630 --> 01:41:41,040 of Martin's as well as Nicks I just have 2244 01:41:47,060 --> 01:41:44,640 a question about the Billy Meyer case I 2245 01:41:49,459 --> 01:41:47,070 understand there's a lot of individuals 2246 01:41:51,500 --> 01:41:49,469 now where as being bypassed as a lot of 2247 01:41:54,530 --> 01:41:51,510 people have just kind of got to the 2248 01:41:56,959 --> 01:41:54,540 forefront of regards to the SS you know 2249 01:41:59,060 --> 01:41:56,969 the out of space programs that they got 2250 01:42:01,280 --> 01:41:59,070 going on space programs but I was just 2251 01:42:03,110 --> 01:42:01,290 curious to know what you guys take is on 2252 01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:03,120 the Billy Meyer case I know Wendell 2253 01:42:08,419 --> 01:42:06,570 Stevens held you know was hell-bent on 2254 01:42:10,700 --> 01:42:08,429 saying that you know he stuck by that 2255 01:42:13,970 --> 01:42:10,710 thing until the day he passed that it 2256 01:42:14,990 --> 01:42:13,980 was authentic but you know I just really 2257 01:42:17,780 --> 01:42:15,000 would like to know your take on it 2258 01:42:18,979 --> 01:42:17,790 because I myself feel like there was two 2259 01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:18,989 particular things as far as the 2260 01:42:23,100 --> 01:42:21,040 frequency sounds and the metal 2261 01:42:24,300 --> 01:42:23,110 that was supposed to be authentic but I 2262 01:42:25,020 --> 01:42:24,310 just would like to know your take on it 2263 01:42:28,050 --> 01:42:25,030 thank you 2264 01:42:31,170 --> 01:42:28,060 yeah sure well I mean the Billy Meyer 2265 01:42:34,110 --> 01:42:31,180 case is like a classic contact in case 2266 01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:34,120 it wasn't a production story it was more 2267 01:42:39,060 --> 01:42:36,370 along the lines of you know the earlier 2268 01:42:42,660 --> 01:42:39,070 contactees like George Adamski now 2269 01:42:45,630 --> 01:42:42,670 there's no doubt that that Billy Meyer 2270 01:42:48,660 --> 01:42:45,640 story puts ufology into two camps there 2271 01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:48,670 are those who fall unbeliev his stories 2272 01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:51,130 and his photographs and those who fall 2273 01:42:57,060 --> 01:42:53,370 on do not believe it there's really 2274 01:42:59,520 --> 01:42:57,070 hardly any room for any kind of space at 2275 01:43:03,090 --> 01:42:59,530 all now you know I've read quite 2276 01:43:05,940 --> 01:43:03,100 extensively on mice claims and whatever 2277 01:43:09,480 --> 01:43:05,950 and there's no doubt that a lot of them 2278 01:43:12,300 --> 01:43:09,490 are extremely controversial and to the 2279 01:43:14,610 --> 01:43:12,310 point of you know it's like well could 2280 01:43:18,380 --> 01:43:14,620 this really be but on the other hand 2281 01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:18,390 what I would say is that you know these 2282 01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:20,610 photographs a lot of those photographs 2283 01:43:27,540 --> 01:43:23,770 do actually look really impressive you 2284 01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:27,550 know some do really look like in the 2285 01:43:34,350 --> 01:43:29,770 right kind of perspective to photograph 2286 01:43:36,750 --> 01:43:34,360 you know a 30 to 44 object in the sky 2287 01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:36,760 you know it trees around it and that's 2288 01:43:41,730 --> 01:43:38,890 exactly how they look you know I mean 2289 01:43:44,190 --> 01:43:41,740 even for example Bob Lazar you know 2290 01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:44,200 granted he's also a controversial 2291 01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:47,050 character but Bob Lazar said that when 2292 01:43:53,700 --> 01:43:49,210 he was allegedly working out at area 51 2293 01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:53,710 in 1988 he said he saw a craft stored 2294 01:44:00,690 --> 01:43:56,530 there that looked almost identical to 2295 01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:00,700 one of the craft photographed in in one 2296 01:44:06,270 --> 01:44:03,930 of Billy Meyers photos so you know the 2297 01:44:08,550 --> 01:44:06,280 it's like a lot of these controversial 2298 01:44:10,590 --> 01:44:08,560 stories you have people on both sides of 2299 01:44:11,310 --> 01:44:10,600 the coin as to whether the story is true 2300 01:44:14,850 --> 01:44:11,320 or not 2301 01:44:18,660 --> 01:44:14,860 and and I would actually say that billy 2302 01:44:22,140 --> 01:44:18,670 meier story kind of defines that you 2303 01:44:24,930 --> 01:44:22,150 know that angle of believers versus 2304 01:44:26,940 --> 01:44:24,940 non-believers and absolutely no room in 2305 01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:26,950 between the two for you know for any 2306 01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:31,170 kind of vague well maybe you know yeah 2307 01:44:37,230 --> 01:44:34,570 but yeah might might take us a little 2308 01:44:40,830 --> 01:44:37,240 little different just I guess I'm in the 2309 01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:40,840 camp of the non-believer camp I say and 2310 01:44:49,500 --> 01:44:45,370 and it there's only the way I look at 2311 01:44:52,860 --> 01:44:49,510 things that if one part of a story is is 2312 01:44:55,740 --> 01:44:52,870 fudged or faked or whatever then to me 2313 01:44:58,410 --> 01:44:55,750 the credibility kind of crumbles and you 2314 01:45:01,130 --> 01:44:58,420 know he has been there has been some 2315 01:45:06,590 --> 01:45:01,140 things that have come to light for 2316 01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:06,600 instance you know a small tree and four 2317 01:45:12,780 --> 01:45:09,250 perspective was used in a field where 2318 01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:12,790 there was no tree there's garbage can 2319 01:45:19,890 --> 01:45:17,650 lid that actually there's pictures of 2320 01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:19,900 the to compare it online and the most 2321 01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:23,530 damning thing of any of his work was 2322 01:45:28,890 --> 01:45:26,170 back on the Dean Martin show there were 2323 01:45:32,550 --> 01:45:28,900 these singers and there was a picture 2324 01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:32,560 that he had taken and that was in a book 2325 01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:34,570 and it's the it's from the Dean Martin 2326 01:45:39,180 --> 01:45:36,490 show from the 1970s 2327 01:45:41,580 --> 01:45:39,190 so there's yeah yeah that's absolutely 2328 01:45:45,510 --> 01:45:41,590 true and that's one of the you know the 2329 01:45:46,770 --> 01:45:45,520 the the flaws in the story and I think 2330 01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:46,780 you know I wouldn't want people to think 2331 01:45:52,830 --> 01:45:49,330 I'm a full-on believer in his story I'm 2332 01:45:55,290 --> 01:45:52,840 not I mean as Martin just pointed out 2333 01:45:58,050 --> 01:45:55,300 but that is one of the a perfect example 2334 01:46:00,510 --> 01:45:58,060 of something that we know is absolutely 2335 01:46:02,130 --> 01:46:00,520 not true you know that that the Dean 2336 01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:02,140 Martin story that that's a you know 2337 01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:05,290 that's research has proved that it's 2338 01:46:11,670 --> 01:46:09,040 exactly as Martin said it but what I 2339 01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:11,680 would say there are some of not met you 2340 01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:13,330 know know I once I tell you all of them 2341 01:46:19,020 --> 01:46:15,730 some of the cases scare me some of the 2342 01:46:22,220 --> 01:46:19,030 graphs are intriguing you know that they 2343 01:46:25,620 --> 01:46:22,230 are um now that doesn't prove anything 2344 01:46:27,510 --> 01:46:25,630 but if you look at those pictures 2345 01:46:30,060 --> 01:46:27,520 compared to just somebody throwing a 2346 01:46:34,740 --> 01:46:30,070 frisbee in the sky or whatever you know 2347 01:46:38,460 --> 01:46:34,750 they I think the whole thing's a fake I 2348 01:46:41,970 --> 01:46:38,470 give him you know sort of an applause 2349 01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:41,980 for actually being able to put all this 2350 01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:45,610 together in what is actually looks a 2351 01:46:51,390 --> 01:46:48,370 really intriguing way but it's 2352 01:46:55,560 --> 01:46:51,400 garbage you know I would be I would be 2353 01:46:57,240 --> 01:46:55,570 sort of impressed by the ability to to 2354 01:46:58,950 --> 01:46:57,250 achieve what what he has achieved 2355 01:47:01,050 --> 01:46:58,960 regardless of which side of the coin 2356 01:47:03,750 --> 01:47:01,060 you're on you know and especially of 2357 01:47:06,450 --> 01:47:03,760 having one arm as well for being exactly 2358 01:47:10,130 --> 01:47:06,460 the type of work that he did hey well 2359 01:47:12,390 --> 01:47:10,140 thanks for the call absolutely 2360 01:47:15,780 --> 01:47:12,400 appreciate your work you do 2361 01:47:17,670 --> 01:47:15,790 god bless thanks a lot yeah okay so 2362 01:47:19,620 --> 01:47:17,680 we'll probably if someone else wants to 2363 01:47:21,030 --> 01:47:19,630 call in we probably have time for one 2364 01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:21,040 more call 2365 01:47:25,110 --> 01:47:23,410 we've got about just over five four 2366 01:47:29,610 --> 01:47:25,120 seven minutes left I think something 2367 01:47:31,530 --> 01:47:29,620 like that so let me just ask you this 2368 01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:31,540 change gears a little bit 2369 01:47:36,750 --> 01:47:34,330 do you have anything else in the works 2370 01:47:38,370 --> 01:47:36,760 coming up our I mean your next book or 2371 01:47:43,380 --> 01:47:38,380 how much of a break do you take between 2372 01:47:45,150 --> 01:47:43,390 writing books anyway oh I'm pretty good 2373 01:47:47,730 --> 01:47:45,160 I like to sort of go on vacation and 2374 01:47:49,440 --> 01:47:47,740 whatever so a couple of months ago I 2375 01:47:52,100 --> 01:47:49,450 went back to England for two weeks just 2376 01:47:54,360 --> 01:47:52,110 to catch up with family and friends and 2377 01:47:57,240 --> 01:47:54,370 had a good time there I went to a school 2378 01:47:59,130 --> 01:47:57,250 reunion and I saw a bunch of people who 2379 01:48:01,530 --> 01:47:59,140 look the same and a bunch of people who 2380 01:48:05,850 --> 01:48:01,540 I didn't even recognize him here that's 2381 01:48:08,820 --> 01:48:05,860 a yeah yes so that was fun and I got to 2382 01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:08,830 drink a bunch of English beer which was 2383 01:48:17,250 --> 01:48:13,330 also good but yeah I mean I'm like I 2384 01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:17,260 said I'm someone who you know I'm very 2385 01:48:24,750 --> 01:48:21,250 good it's sort of as I see it as a you 2386 01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:24,760 know sort of doing the work taking time 2387 01:48:29,850 --> 01:48:27,130 off I mean to give you an example like 2388 01:48:31,860 --> 01:48:29,860 not as anything to do with UFOs but you 2389 01:48:33,750 --> 01:48:31,870 know but in relation to your question I 2390 01:48:37,080 --> 01:48:33,760 mean like last Friday nights I went to 2391 01:48:39,480 --> 01:48:37,090 bring a girlfriend we went out to her 2392 01:48:42,270 --> 01:48:39,490 local club in Dallas here called trees 2393 01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:42,280 and there was a concert on from Doyle 2394 01:48:45,570 --> 01:48:44,290 who's the guitarist from the punk band 2395 01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:45,580 of the misfits 2396 01:48:50,130 --> 01:48:48,370 and he put on a really good show so in 2397 01:48:55,350 --> 01:48:50,140 their Friday night Saturday night we 2398 01:48:57,930 --> 01:48:55,360 went to an early Halloween party and so 2399 01:48:59,940 --> 01:48:57,940 you know very good it's sort of doing 2400 01:49:02,169 --> 01:48:59,950 the work of writing about it and then 2401 01:49:07,589 --> 01:49:02,179 I'll switch off and crank up 2402 01:49:11,049 --> 01:49:07,599 The Ramones or whatever you know okay so 2403 01:49:12,580 --> 01:49:11,059 but what about your next your next 2404 01:49:16,540 --> 01:49:12,590 project when you have oh yeah that's 2405 01:49:18,279 --> 01:49:16,550 yeah well this is just purely 2406 01:49:20,649 --> 01:49:18,289 coincidence and I've got two books 2407 01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:20,659 coming out fairly close to each other 2408 01:49:24,910 --> 01:49:23,449 and it's mainly because well completely 2409 01:49:26,969 --> 01:49:24,920 because they're with different 2410 01:49:30,009 --> 01:49:26,979 publishers and sometimes you know the 2411 01:49:34,060 --> 01:49:30,019 publication dates clash a little bit so 2412 01:49:35,739 --> 01:49:34,070 the alien abductions book the official 2413 01:49:39,100 --> 01:49:35,749 release date is actually November the 2414 01:49:40,839 --> 01:49:39,110 first but it's already available you can 2415 01:49:44,379 --> 01:49:40,849 get it on Amazon and off the shelves in 2416 01:49:47,020 --> 01:49:44,389 Barnes & Noble but on so that's November 2417 01:49:50,949 --> 01:49:47,030 the 1st but on January the 1st I have a 2418 01:49:53,649 --> 01:49:50,959 book out on the whole history of area 51 2419 01:49:56,890 --> 01:49:53,659 and no and that'll be out on January the 2420 01:49:59,580 --> 01:49:56,900 1st Wow um real interests I have to have 2421 01:50:01,600 --> 01:49:59,590 you back real interested in that and 2422 01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:01,610 because that seems like that would be 2423 01:50:07,779 --> 01:50:04,010 such a hard thing to do research on I 2424 01:50:09,549 --> 01:50:07,789 mean it's well it is I mean you know you 2425 01:50:11,739 --> 01:50:09,559 sort of forced to go with what date is 2426 01:50:15,069 --> 01:50:11,749 available purely and simply because it 2427 01:50:17,589 --> 01:50:15,079 is such a you know an enigmatic kind of 2428 01:50:21,549 --> 01:50:17,599 place I guess now can someone actually 2429 01:50:24,759 --> 01:50:21,559 if someone actually works there can they 2430 01:50:26,739 --> 01:50:24,769 I mean is it in their contract as far as 2431 01:50:28,359 --> 01:50:26,749 they just can't talk about that they 2432 01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:28,369 ever worked there I mean do you know if 2433 01:50:31,359 --> 01:50:30,050 it's well 2434 01:50:32,919 --> 01:50:31,369 yeah I mean I would imagine that's the 2435 01:50:35,310 --> 01:50:32,929 case and certain people have come 2436 01:50:39,489 --> 01:50:35,320 forward to say that yes that is the case 2437 01:50:41,830 --> 01:50:39,499 you know intimidation you won't do this 2438 01:50:44,140 --> 01:50:41,840 you know almost like like a military 2439 01:50:46,660 --> 01:50:44,150 equivalent of like a nondisclosure 2440 01:50:49,540 --> 01:50:46,670 agreement that kind of thing you know 2441 01:50:52,120 --> 01:50:49,550 with all the usual caveats involved you 2442 01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:52,130 know talk about this and this is what 2443 01:50:56,649 --> 01:50:55,130 will happen that kind of thing and only 2444 01:50:58,449 --> 01:50:56,659 I mean if you look at the number of 2445 01:51:01,060 --> 01:50:58,459 people who must have worked there of the 2446 01:51:03,489 --> 01:51:01,070 years versus the number of people who 2447 01:51:05,979 --> 01:51:03,499 have come forward well the number of 2448 01:51:11,979 --> 01:51:05,989 people come forward is minut that's 2449 01:51:13,569 --> 01:51:11,989 right yeah so I mean it's clear that you 2450 01:51:15,669 --> 01:51:13,579 know whatever contract you signed it's 2451 01:51:19,870 --> 01:51:15,679 it's fairly binding 2452 01:51:23,110 --> 01:51:19,880 really that's right and and the secrets 2453 01:51:25,660 --> 01:51:23,120 there you know I mean what they're 2454 01:51:27,430 --> 01:51:25,670 working on you know I mean and I it may 2455 01:51:30,370 --> 01:51:27,440 have nothing to do with aliens you know 2456 01:51:33,610 --> 01:51:30,380 I mean that is a speculation but anytime 2457 01:51:34,330 --> 01:51:33,620 something becomes totally secret like 2458 01:51:37,959 --> 01:51:34,340 that 2459 01:51:43,030 --> 01:51:37,969 their conspiracies just kind of grow out 2460 01:51:47,500 --> 01:51:43,040 of that yeah and I think you know it's 2461 01:51:49,300 --> 01:51:47,510 almost as if like area 51 has become its 2462 01:51:52,180 --> 01:51:49,310 own entity you know it's part of pop 2463 01:51:55,090 --> 01:51:52,190 culture yeah you know is I mean probably 2464 01:51:57,700 --> 01:51:55,100 the only government installation in the 2465 01:52:01,180 --> 01:51:57,710 world which has achieved like a major 2466 01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:01,190 position within pop culture I mean you 2467 01:52:06,490 --> 01:52:03,290 know it appeared in Independence Day 2468 01:52:11,439 --> 01:52:06,500 which the pentagram is I'm gonna help to 2469 01:52:14,290 --> 01:52:11,449 you know provide imagery and aircraft 2470 01:52:15,580 --> 01:52:14,300 for independence day until the producer 2471 01:52:18,729 --> 01:52:15,590 and the writer said well we want to 2472 01:52:21,100 --> 01:52:18,739 include area 51 in the story and the 2473 01:52:23,649 --> 01:52:21,110 Pentagon said if you want to focus on 2474 01:52:25,240 --> 01:52:23,659 area 51 sorry we can't work with you and 2475 01:52:29,290 --> 01:52:25,250 that's not here so that's it that's the 2476 01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:29,300 true story the Pentagon basically told 2477 01:52:34,209 --> 01:52:31,610 the production company you know if you 2478 01:52:36,070 --> 01:52:34,219 want to mention area 51 we're not going 2479 01:52:39,550 --> 01:52:36,080 to get involved and that's what happened 2480 01:52:41,500 --> 01:52:39,560 so you know it's been in area 51 it's 2481 01:52:45,399 --> 01:52:41,510 been in independence days between the 2482 01:52:48,040 --> 01:52:45,409 x-files you know everybody has heard of 2483 01:52:49,930 --> 01:52:48,050 it it's like the world's most famous top 2484 01:52:51,970 --> 01:52:49,940 secret base it's top secret but 2485 01:52:54,550 --> 01:52:51,980 everybody knows of it you know now what 2486 01:52:56,590 --> 01:52:54,560 do they call or what did they call area 2487 01:53:01,959 --> 01:52:56,600 51 do you know what they actually called 2488 01:53:04,149 --> 01:53:01,969 it well area 51 itself is actually part 2489 01:53:07,660 --> 01:53:04,159 of it even bigger it is called area 51 2490 01:53:11,110 --> 01:53:07,670 but area 51 itself is contained in an 2491 01:53:12,820 --> 01:53:11,120 even bigger part of Nevada which is 2492 01:53:15,370 --> 01:53:12,830 called the Nevada test and training 2493 01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:15,380 range and it's up in that particular 2494 01:53:22,390 --> 01:53:19,010 range the area 51 exists and there are 2495 01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:22,400 there various other areas within that 2496 01:53:28,030 --> 01:53:25,130 particular Nevada test and training 2497 01:53:29,529 --> 01:53:28,040 range and but actually its origins goes 2498 01:53:33,549 --> 01:53:29,539 back to the Second World War 2499 01:53:36,370 --> 01:53:33,559 when there was after Pearl Harbor there 2500 01:53:39,609 --> 01:53:36,380 was this you know this need for beefing 2501 01:53:40,990 --> 01:53:39,619 up the military and developing new bases 2502 01:53:42,970 --> 01:53:41,000 and where technologies could be 2503 01:53:45,399 --> 01:53:42,980 developed and so it sort of all 2504 01:53:47,740 --> 01:53:45,409 gravitated towards Devolder you know we 2505 01:53:50,169 --> 01:53:47,750 had these isolated deserts and mountains 2506 01:53:52,750 --> 01:53:50,179 and he was seen as the perfect place to 2507 01:53:55,330 --> 01:53:52,760 sort of start new technologies and 2508 01:53:57,310 --> 01:53:55,340 aircraft and he just kind of grew into 2509 01:54:00,250 --> 01:53:57,320 the 50s where they were developing and 2510 01:54:02,740 --> 01:54:00,260 flying things like the u-2 spy plane and 2511 01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:02,750 then into the 60s we got the blackbird 2512 01:54:10,029 --> 01:54:06,650 spy spy plane and then and then you know 2513 01:54:11,799 --> 01:54:10,039 we have stories of crashed UFOs and dead 2514 01:54:13,560 --> 01:54:11,809 aliens which I know which I point out in 2515 01:54:15,879 --> 01:54:13,570 the book you know it like a little 2516 01:54:18,310 --> 01:54:15,889 snippet even though the books two months 2517 01:54:22,689 --> 01:54:18,320 away you know I do sometimes wonder if 2518 01:54:25,689 --> 01:54:22,699 the UFO angle is being kind of over 2519 01:54:28,209 --> 01:54:25,699 blown as a means to hide the fact that 2520 01:54:32,589 --> 01:54:28,219 there are really weird crafts out there 2521 01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:32,599 of our creation but by suggesting their 2522 01:54:37,930 --> 01:54:35,570 UFOs you know the media or the you know 2523 01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:37,940 the so-called serious media stay away 2524 01:54:41,770 --> 01:54:40,130 from it all right maybe the the whole 2525 01:54:43,779 --> 01:54:41,780 point next with you 2526 01:54:46,299 --> 01:54:43,789 yeah yeah you know to make it look 2527 01:54:48,939 --> 01:54:46,309 stupid and sensational and it kinda 2528 01:54:50,799 --> 01:54:48,949 keeps a good cover for what's really 2529 01:54:52,660 --> 01:54:50,809 going on there right hey Nick we're 2530 01:54:54,939 --> 01:54:52,670 totally out of time so thanks so much 2531 01:54:56,529 --> 01:54:54,949 it's been a pleasure as always and now 2532 01:54:59,740 --> 01:54:56,539 the cords are talking to you again in 2533 01:55:02,439 --> 01:54:59,750 January all right thanks about it all 2534 01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:02,449 right you take care it alright everyone 2535 01:55:06,339 --> 01:55:04,130 so that's it for the show thanks so much 2536 01:55:09,939 --> 01:55:06,349 for listening we'll be back next week 2537 01:55:12,549 --> 01:55:09,949 with guess who Alejandro Rojas he's my 2538 01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:12,559 guest next week anyway thanks so much 2539 01:55:15,970 --> 01:55:14,690 and thanks for supporting the show and 2540 01:55:18,759 --> 01:55:15,980 watching the show listening to the show